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Guest NY Rob

Need help!! Mirror carp or not.

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Guest NJ Rob

All ...

Friendly debate here between myself, and another who caught this lovely specimen and whom I disagree with on the fact that this fish is a mirror carp.

DO NOT hesitate to post opinion. No one will be offended here. No one!!

It wont be the first or last time Im wrong but Ive seen too many fish like this and would like a final, once-and-for-all answer on these "irregular" looking fish.

So please .. post up with either a yes or no and then why. Much appreciated.

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I would vote for a full scaled mirror all based on a good bit of those scales being a little different in size and shape. All though it does not look like the normal full scale mirrors I normally catch. It does not appear to be scarring so I will vote Yes it is a mirror.

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Fully scaled common....! :D:D

I mean, fully scaled mirror..... or an irregularly scaled common... hard to tell really...

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Guest phonebush

NJ,

Easy, since there is no official or accepted unoffical catagory for irregularly scaled common carp, by deduction, it must be a fully scaled mirror.

However if it is from the NJ area it could be classed as a chemically induced "normal" common. If it is a normal NJ carp then it is common but not indigenious in the civilized world.

Phone

(common with birth defect)

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That is a close one? It does look like a highly irregular-scaled common, but it looks border line fully-sclaed mirror. The one thing that leads me to believe it is a irregularly-scaled common is that almost all of its scales of of the same size and proportion. I have only caught one fully-scaled mirror so its my reference:

matt-carpy-rez123.jpg

Looking at my meager fully-scaled, the scales show some variation in shape and size.

Although, the carp in question only has 8 or 9 rows of scales, which makes me believe it is of the fully scaled mirror variety.

Tough call. I'll go fully-scaled mirror. Unless you caught it Rob. then it is definitely an irregularly-scaled common caught by an irregular mutant of angler who holds fish wrong.:D

None the less, its a beaut.

Matt

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Rob,

This fish is DEFINITELY a fully scaled mirror :D What's more it it is held correctly :D and the pose is faultless :D I might add that the angler's hands look to be superbly shaped and are indicative of a carpist in superb physical condition :D:D

That's my story and I'm sticking to it :D:D All the best..... Bill D.

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Guest telfish

We get lots of these on the Larry and lake Ontario. I call them scattered scale commons. Often the other side is perfectly normal. Just another genetic variation really. Closer to a common than a fully scaled mirror. Do you have any photos of the other side?

Terry

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Nope--I would not count that as a mirror

Sorry--" I still do not have one"

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Guest NJ Rob
Closer to a common than a fully scaled mirror. Do you have any photos of the other side?

Unfortunately T, I do not. However, my memory dictates the other side was smooth and believe it or not, I was very sober when this fish was caught!! :D

Looking at Matts beauty mirror THAT is a classic example of a fully scaled mirror for the reasons Matt posted. The scales MUST be different shaped and scattered. Not the case here.

FTR, I am NOT holding the fish, nor was the fish caught in NJ. Two hypothesis to the wasteside now. :D

Bill, you have no idea what you're talking about although this fish WAS caught on one of your Egg & Milk 20 mm red boilies. Stick to baits. Your classification of fish stinks like rotting maize. :D

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Here's another which IS a fully scaled mirror..... I think!! :D

post-5-1129745512_thumb.jpg

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Scatter Scale Common

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I still think the one thing that makes me believe it is a fully scaled is the number of rows of scales, I recall someone (maybe Scott) bringing this up before?

To me, the fish below are scattered scaled commons, some call em muddlers?:

matt-32-potomac.jpg

matt-wiss-2-21-1.jpg

fish....

Matt

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Guest Brendon Miller

I think the carp in question isn't a mirror. I too have heard them called a muddler. I caught a muddler in August on the St. Larry. :D

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Mirror Carp is a Carp with no, or missing scales. This one has no missing scales, although they are irregular. Therefore, I vote for a normal common Carp.

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Mirror Carp is a Carp with no, or missing scales. This one has no missing scales, although they are irregular. Therefore, I vote for a normal common Carp.

Ditto.

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Guest BelgoCarp

Definitely a common ( just count the scales along the side line - should be between 34 and 37).

beautifull carp anyway :D

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There is such a thing as a full scale mirror, I thought the definition was irregular shaped and sized scales. The picutres of those full scaled mirrors in this thread are without a doubt mirror carp, but they are not missing any scales.

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I say fully scaled mirror....nice one Bill :D There's definately a difference between those and the muddlers.

Here's a couple that I caught, the first Bill should remember well although it was quite a few years ago now...the second I caught at the CAGI on Claytor Lake a couple of years ago, along with two others.

post-3-1129758016_thumb.jpg

post-3-1129758080_thumb.jpg

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Bill , you headless wonder, I'd recognise those legs anywhere :D :l

Stewart, It's very probably the same fish ... :D

Rob, Glad to see the lake hasn't frozen yet.. All the best :D

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My take on Rob's initial pic is that it is indeed a fully scalled MIRROR.

Mirror scaling is variable from nearly none, to fully scaled. What makes a mirror a mirror is the larger size and irregularity. A muddler common usually has normal sized scales but with some level of irregularity. A common common is has small, uniform scaling. Mirrors, other than the fully scalled variety, have large scales irregularly arranged.

What makes Rob's fish somewhat hard to call, is that the largish scales are somewhat uniformly arranged. However, look at a common common. The scale pattern is much more uniform, but nowhere nearly as uniform as a common.

Here is another example of a fully scaled mirror with pretty good uniformity to the scale arrangement. None the less, it is a fully scaled mirror. Reference the size of scales compared to a common.

Compare with the regularity and size of the common.

post-8-1129759729_thumb.jpg

post-8-1129759851_thumb.jpg

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Here's a pic of Paul with the same fish that Dave is holding (I think) very similar to Bill's and definately a mirror in my opinion...

post-3-1129760317_thumb.jpg

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