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Neil Stern

are boilies over rated???

what do you use??  

152 members have voted

  1. 1. what works best for you

    • sweet corn out of the can
      43
    • tiger nuts
      15
    • boiled deer corn
      17
    • boiled and flavored deer corn
      37
    • spam or other meats
      0
    • potato
      1
    • Boilies
      39
    • Other---say what in a post
      24


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Well Chit, dumb me, of course that makes perfect sense !! :D

Darned Bass and Catfish Trash fish :)

Edited by Neil Stern

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The results so far are just about as I had expected, well, with the exception that SPAM or meats has gotten NO HITS...am I worng or wasn't that one of the baits of choice across the pond for years?????

I personally would not venture out without boilies, and will usually set up a rod with them, but my go to is Flavored Deer Corn or deer Corn and Tigers on the same hair, has been a killer for me in the Sumer months,,lots of good discussion on this,,,,,, I love it ! :D

Right on Neil,

I caught my first carp in UK on Spam in 1971, well actually 2 carp, 17 & 14. Oh, the first was the 17 MIRRA. :) Spam hadn't quite got off the ground at that time, but as you say it got to be a big bait. I originally fished Spam for tench. Think it's mostly used for barbel now.

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Guest RivercarperOhio

Over rated ? Yes to a point.

If I was trying to win the carp in a 2-6 acre lake over to a bait to try to put weight on them , have a better chance at catching them as they accept my bait as a food source over thier natural food source , then YES I would use a HNV boilie . Other than that , pop-up boilies are in my bait bag along with flavored maise , sweetcorn , chick peas and imitation baits. They are just another bait option to me. I roll my own , but only roll small batches that are to be put into small jars and glugged for hookbaits only. I dont chum with boilies .

If I was a sponsored angler by some boilie company , then yes I would chum with boilies , but I put too much chum into the water and I aint about to spend $100's to $1000's of dollars on buying them to chum or working my butt off rolling my own just to chum with them. If this was the UK , ok , maybe , but it is certainly not needed here in the States and if I didnt use boiles at all I would still keep on catching and catching big ones here in my State.

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Guest phonebush

Neil,

This has always been an oxymoron. Boilies are the #1 bait for catching the #1 freshwater sport fish in the world. How could I have gone so wrong? Yet, I confess, I have never caught one single carp on a sidehooked boilie. It's difficult to believe "so many really good anglers" are all SO wrong???

I've tried boilies, next I'm going to have to try a hair rig. I have an idea - howbout I combine the two - a hair rig and a boilie - brilliant - may just work!!

Phone

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........or working my butt off rolling my own just to chum with them.

If one had the desire to make their own boilies then I think they could just prebait without rolling the mix - maybe just make them into softball sizes and prebait that way. I think if done this way, it's a lot less work and one still gets the desired effect of the carps recognizing the boilies as food.

But even then, like River said, depending on your baiting approach while fishing, you may need a lot of rolled boilies and that could be a lot of work.

Personally for me, rolling my own was just too much work for me. I prefer using commercial boilies with stringers or crushed inside a pva system - this works pretty well for me, even without prebaiting.

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Guest phonebush

Neil,

In my mind, there is no question about it in North America. Because of the ease and convience (and of course success) of paylaking methods we are developing and have developed a kind of - - uhmmm - you pick the word - - but a combination paylake/Euro cross that even the most ardent Euro anglers are addopting (in the closet). Our wildwater carp still match the angler and are pretty stupid.

Phone

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Guest RivercarperOhio

Phone ,

Paylake ? Whats that the forked stick , push button and dough ball way ? If so , I think most of us on the forum have moved on to better ways. I know that most of us born and raised here in the States started out that way , but that was over once we really learned how to fish.

To say there is a euro/paypond combonation is funny. Theres a big difference in method mix and packbaits so too is there a big difference in small single hook hair rigs and big double 2/0 hooked crappie speader rigs.

Matt

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Guest cornball

Neil, If you included "hot dogs", I think you'd see more people voting for the Spam/meat.

Phone, I'm hurt that the "river rats" (my self included) always get left out of your analogies. If your going to create a "Frankenstein" version of carp fishing here, your gonna need our parts too!

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Jeez Larry -- I just had a weird flash - seeing Phone with the bolts in his neck :)

In essence - those that share are actually doing a bit of crossover stuff, and who knows -- as Carping is still in its infancy here - there maybe something that evolves --- a whole lot different to current Euro/Paylake methods. In some ways, it's rather exciting knowing we might be part of the birth of something different.

Cheers,

Brid.

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Neil,

In my mind, there is no question about it in North America. Because of the ease and convience (and of course success) of paylaking methods we are developing and have developed a kind of - - uhmmm - you pick the word - - but a combination paylake/Euro cross that even the most ardent Euro anglers are addopting (in the closet). Our wildwater carp still match the angler and are pretty stupid.

Phone

phone.

With all due respect, the correct terminology is " Eurolaker". :)

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Scotch is good, Soda is good, but a Scotch and Soda is better :)

There are already blendings of Method and Pack, who knows????? a Sugar POP Boilie could be in the making as we speak... :D

I think the best ';ve ever heard about fishing success came from Bait Boat Charlie when I shared the bank wih him

he said,

'THE SCRET TO SUCCESS IN CARP IS ANGLING RESTS IN ONLY 2 THINGS.....

1) THE FISH HAVE TO BE WHERE YOU'RE FISHING....AND

2) THEY GOT TO BE HUNGRY.....

I totally agree,,,,,,the challange is getting them to where you are, with method, particle, hemp beds, range cubes, flavors etc....keeping them there....... and then giving them what they want,,,,,,and that's the question,,,,,do they want BOILIES, Corn, crawfish, mussels, spam, bread or,,,,GOOSE CHIT which I know is Phones go to bait :P

If you look at the survey results, Deer Corn flavored and non flavored , when added together seem to be the CAGGERS favorite( not to discount corn out of the can).with boilies coming in 2nd...why is that????? what the heck is in CORN that makes it so successful?????? Phone??? what's the magic chemical ingredient in Corn that is such a killer????

Edited by Neil Stern

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'THE SCRET TO SUCCESS IN CARP IS ANGLING RESTS IN ONLY 2 THINGS.....

1) THE FISH HAVE TO BE WHERE YOU'RE FISHING....AND

2) THEY GOT TO BE HUNGRY.....

100% correct! I also can't tell you how many times I fished with the same exact bait on two different rods within yards of each other and yet one rod caught all the fish. So if I were using different baits or flavors I would swear one is working better than the other. I had this happen far too often so I am convinced that location is the most important factor. Of course baits and rigs can improve catch rates but you first must have your bait in front of feeding carp!

Eric

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Guest phonebush

ifish,

Ever have that happen with rods? I can't tell you how many time - with the exact same setup all cast right on top of each other - the righthand rod caught all the fish. On rare occasions I have switched rods (real sneaky like so the carp wouldn't know what I did) and darned if the left rod didn't start catching all the fish. I'm sure, based on experience, if one rod gets hot - it stays hot! For the rest of the week I call that rod my "favorite rod".

Neil,

I think - serously - corn is the "trick" bait because first it is first a natural cereal, grain. second, it is easy to use, third, it is cheap. Of those three choices the second one makes it the choice of champions. Size matters!

I can think of several cereal grains that are actually superioUr to corn. Although not one of my choices many Euro guys actually think hemp is the "go to" cereal grain. My personal choice would be flax. Carp like flax better than corn - every time!. How the hell you going to get a flax seed on a hair rig? Although not easy to use and not a cereal grain, a peeled pumpkin seed is always killer. Who's gonna sit around and peel pumpkin seeds?

Just about any "grass" cereal grain is equal - one to the other - in various circumstances. Cereal grain is a natural treat and generally get into the water during times of natural successful feeding periods. Corn is just the right size for fishermen for carp fishing.

Phone

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Guest stoph

Why have i never seen a corn flavour boilie?

Thanks for the flax heads up phone, i'll be incorporationg that tid bit into a flax boilie recipie.

Hemp seed is an amazing chum (for many species) is that because its so oily?, bit pricey for me tho.

I used spam many times in blighty for carp, tench and barbel. Eels really like it too though and i hated catching them slimy mofo's. Are there eels in canada? i've never seen one (only lampreys)

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Royal Carp has MICRO CORN BOILIES,,,,,work well on Buffs

They also have a product which is concentrated corn smell in a spray,,,,,,,,really cool as are thier other sprays

Edited by Neil Stern

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I have seen other corn boilies as well. I know Venture had a corn boilie that caught a Kingston 25lb fish a year or so ago.

I think corn works for many of the same reasons phone stated. I also believe it stands out well on bottom and the visibility helps. Considering it is most readily available has to be the biggest contributing factor though.

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100% correct! I also can't tell you how many times I fished with the same exact bait on two different rods within yards of each other and yet one rod caught all the fish. So if I were using different baits or flavors I would swear one is working better than the other. I had this happen far too often so I am convinced that location is the most important factor. Of course baits and rigs can improve catch rates but you first must have your bait in front of feeding carp!

Eric

Sounds like ya'll think carp grow roots and stay rooted to the bottom like trees. I guess we can forget about attractants, flavors, colors, types of baits and textures of baits. Just get in front of the fish and hope they are hungry. :) Total BS.

Carp always want to eat and are quite mobile. They will follow a scent trail hundreds of yards and travel in search constantly. The type of bait you use means little, as long as its not toxic, as long as your fishing by yourself and the carp have no choices to make. A turd will work just a good in these cases. :D jmho.

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I would also like to add I have witnessed carp in crystal clear water passing over sweet corn to find the few pieces of flavored maize tossed in (K-1 JTF to be exact). These fish actively swam over free offerings to fight for the flavored treats. So while location matters to the point you can't catch if they aren't there, carp will pass up one bait for another if one really appeals to them.

I never fish my rods yards apart though, but I will use 2 flavors to see what they want and then fish accordingly. If one flavor gets a hit I switch the rods and see if its hit further apart to make sure I'm not just in a main path. If it is hit again I know what they are going for.

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I would also like to add I have witnessed carp in crystal clear water passing over sweet corn to find the few pieces of flavored maize tossed in (K-1 JTF to be exact). These fish actively swam over free offerings to fight for the flavored treats. So while location matters to the point you can't catch if they aren't there, carp will pass up one bait for another if one really appeals to them.

I never fish my rods yards apart though, but I will use 2 flavors to see what they want and then fish accordingly. If one flavor gets a hit I switch the rods and see if its hit further apart to make sure I'm not just in a main path. If it is hit again I know what they are going for.

Great tip! I have never put any emphasis on different flavors before but I will have to try that next time.

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Great tip! I have never put any emphasis on different flavors before but I will have to try that next time.

There are also cases where the flavor may be right but the boilie isn't prefered but flavored corn is and vice-versa.

I'm a firm believer in flavors. I have my go to flavors of juicy tutti fruitti and pineapple ice cream. If those aren't doing it I will give butterscotch cream a shot. All flavors seem to have their days and in most cases I believe a favorite can be found. I can't explain it all, I just know I've experienced it. The witnessing of carp passing over sweet corn sealed the deal for me, flavors matter.

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Guest phonebush

mc wr,

You have "explained" why they work in your last post. Your "favorites" are a bias. You have confidence in them. Mathmatical odd are you are going to catch fish on the "flavor" you are fishing. Certainly not likely they will jump out of the water to get something different on the bank.

My observations have been the same as yours but for a different reason. Carp will "go to" other carp first. If the first carp is eating flavored bait it appears all other carp "select" the flavored bait. In truth, they are greedy and will eat from the same source instinctively. Your theory only works if a "single" carp is present. I've tried to "control" the variables for selection and have found it just CANNOT be done. Tomorrow, even with a single fish, the results can be exactly opposite from the day before. That is, in effect, the reason there is no "perfect carp bait". Depending on your view, carp are either too smart or too stupid to have an "exact" patteren.

Phone

You are 100% right in having confidence in your selection. A well prepared angler who "thinks" he will catch fish a certain way is vastly more likely to catch fish. This is a phenomenon I have observed with such a high degree of consistancy I have to believe there is some real value in confidence. (JMHO)

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Guest phonebush

Neil,

Your referrence is total BS. (You can tell him so for me).

Carp can't see color that's true. At least that's true at depth usually thought of as "the fishing range" or depth for carp fishing. In the margin carp use the physical cones which detect light in the three available colors but are far more reactive to motion as a defense, NOT FOR COLOR. Remember the rods and cones do not fire at the same time. Either rods or cones, not both.

Let me give you an example. The author says to open paragraph two, "red line [fishing line] in deep water looks black". Black is the absence of light. At any depth when the light disappears (for what ever color) it DISAPPEARS it doesn't turn black.

I thought you spent some time diving?

Remember - color is an intellectual decision. Red is red because you LEARNED to call it red. I may call it dark pink or kinda orange.

Phone

Edit: BTW I doubt he even meant infrared specturm, I suspect he meant UV. Unless of course he was referring to reading some other junk. That would mean junk on junk.

Edited by phonebush

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Guest RivercarperOhio

Carp can see in UV , but I suspect they can see color better than Phone thinks. Carp have one of the best eye sights in freshwater fish groups , they can see in very low light and in dark stained colored water (shorter distance of course) , but if they CANT see color , than why do some colors work much better than others ?

I cant believe you guys rely on Phones word , aint he they guy that says carp dont feed under 50 degrees ? Any of us catching carp in the midle of Winter know just how right he is , not , LOL !

Matt

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