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Neil Stern

are boilies over rated???

what do you use??  

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i like using boilies once in a while, but i like the boiled and flavored deer corn. i used to use sweet corn when i first started carping but i found that it came off the hair too easy, so i started using the deer corn. but i do like boilies. ive caught fish on them, and they do usually catch bigger fish, but ive found it takes longer to hook a fish using a boilie rather then corn.

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I agree that there is not a "best bait" but there is always better bait. The question that, are boilies over rated, referes to the USA. For those that have only fished the hair rig I would ask just how do they know? For those that have tryed puffs out of the pack and had no luck I would say it would be much like a paylaker trying a plain boilie for the first time, on the hair, and not catching. The paylaker has not got a clue. Soooo, I would say, without patting myself on the back too much, that the boilie is over rated here in the states hands down.. The reason is simple, no need for me to say it, ya'll for the most part, live it. Your doing the best you can with the knowledge you have and defending it. Too bad 99.9% of ya'll are not fully experienced. I feel for ya too. There is so much more out there it would make you want to committ Hari Kari if you ever did know. The ways that Puffology could help the boilie can not be comprehended by the Euro guys. KISS should be the first rule in carp angling. If you don't need it dont use it. Keep it simple stupid, and catch way more fish.

News Flash.... This is the USA, not Europe. The two venues are not even close except for the carp. If I was to go back to France and fish again I would use the hair and boilie, as my pickup, and Pack as my bait. The Bream make it impossible to fish any other way. Here in the states I use the same bait but different pickup, the Puff, because the boilie is not needed. What is needed for 99.9% of ya'll is the knowledge of how to use the paylake rig and Pickup (( puffology)). There are more ways to make a pickup then make the boilie. Since the Puff is not the bait it is made to actually trigger the strike.... This is where most Euro guys and euro wannabees head for the woods. Not because they know it doesnt work but because they havent a clue as to how to make it work.

I would also add that there is no such thing as a ( big fish bait ). Its a LIE so quite saying it because any carp angler worth his salt know it.

Ye ole Knuckle dragger

On the Puff

Tom.

Did you catch a few Bream in France Tom? Any size? Any numbers? On the puff??

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Holy :blammo: batman. Not sure I even want to reply to this enthusiastic thread, or worse yet, post a video showing my captures ! Anyhow, in for a penny, in for a pound. When I started carp fishing, back in the late 70s, most of my fish were caught on bread, worms, maggots, cheese, luncheon meat, attached directly to the hook. I stopped my fishing right around the time, mid 80s, when boilies and hair rigs were becoming far more mainstream. Knowledge just wasn't available for us poor youngsters - without having to be a member of the secret society, clubs or purchase other publications to even be aware of them!

Having only been back into the sport for a couple of years now, i started with worms, quickly went to bread to corn to pack/method, to flavored corn/maize, home made boilies (that didn't go so well!), soluble boilies, pop up boilies, fake corn/maize, glow in the dark varieties and even glugs.

95% of my captures fall to corn, maize, flavored or unflavored. IMHO: does it mean they are best overall carp bait, not really. It just means that given where I fish, the lack of any pre-baiting, these baits do really pull in the fish and they work for me. On that topic, yes, they also pull in trout, catfish, crawfish and anything else that happens on by and wants a meal. Am I going to stop trying other baits, hell no. I have certainly found the carp at my local venues have now caught on to my rigs, my baits and presentation. My catch rate last year sank down the hole at those more frequently fished locales. It like an arms race, forever trying to stay one step ahead of those wise and wary carp. I will certainly continue to fish my corn/maize at newer venues but at the harder ones I will be trying out new offerings to see what works and what doesn't.

There isn't a best bait, there is just the best bait that works for you in a given circumstance.

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Did you catch a few Bream in France Tom? Any size? Any numbers? On the puff??

Yes I did. Puffs not good in France.. lol... I had a picture but cant find it now.

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Yes I did. Puffs not good in France.. lol... I had a picture but cant find it now.

A match (multi species) fishing dream! They don't pull very hard and weigh well....make a mess as well though...Anyway, yes, that's the problem that boilies were initially conceived to solve...not needed here...but they smell nice...

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If over rated means they keep catching me lots of thirties and forties then yes they' are over rated! I'll be sure to pass this info onto Kevin Nash and terry Hearn!

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I have had good luck with several different types of baits. On the St. Lawrence around Waddington Boilies were my go to bait. Some of my spots on the Seneca river flavored maze or tigers worked best but here in Idaho Pack and puff have worked the best for me locally and my few trips to Blackfoot Tigers landed me more fish than anything else.

Don't mean to stir the pot Craig but using Kevin and Terry as examples for boilies doesn't really apply here since most of the fish they target are raised on boilies. Now I'm not saying they cant come here and get on fish but it usually takes longer to get fish on them for me anyway. I usually fish one rod with some form of pack and one with either a pop up or snowman and either a stringer of freebies or a small pva bag with some crushed boilies and the pack rod will out fish the boilies rod 10 to 1 I'm all ears if you have any suggestions for me feel free to post or send me a pm.

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Nonsense. Regardless of geography carp are carp. It's that simple, and actually most European carp are raised on pellets before being stocked into lakes.

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Nonsense. Regardless of geography carp are carp. It's that simple, and actually most European carp are raised on pellets before being stocked into lakes.

Craig please read this from the book Fish Physiology Vol. 4http://books.google.ca/books?id=3FEowat8sSYC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=chemoreceptors+in+carp&source=bl&ots=Ah1vKh7mnS&sig=XwkvGSh2fhHi_mP-mBTCzxKIBMM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BfUPUYmtAaSEygHl8oCQBA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=chemoreceptors%20in%20carp&f=false and then tell us that they are all the same. Sorry but this is scientific evidence that you are wrong in your statement.

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I'm not wasting my time getting involved in the anti boilie brigade, I think mine, deans and Brian's results all speak for themselves these past 2 years. Using geography is just an excuse, I caught on river creeks lakes, new waters, established waters, and always had fish the first time they saw the bait. I have even sat 6 feet away and watched them, and caught it all on underwater camera. Carp are carp, it's that simple.

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Well let me say this when you buy 1lb bag of boilies, and use it for the whole year no wounder you don't catch on boilies :)

You need to introduce boilies to your fish to start catching on them. That meas you need to prebait with number of lb to start catching more fish on them.

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Rebel .... "I work for a union and im a union representative".......shocker bro........big shocker , nope not really , Im not surprised!!!!!! LMAO

Never said USA baits don't work , but be prepared to load them in a water to get the carp on them. I don't chum with boilies , no need when you use quality baits that catch from the introduction. I chum steam rolled corn and other particles and fish a method mix , the ONLY boilie (pop-up) that is in my swim is the one on the hair..and they search it out as it sticks out from the free baits...not blended in .

Tom , stop it with the puffs already , no ones listening...pay-pond fisherman aren't ANGLERS , sad they are even allowed to claim being fisherman...when the #1 drive is NOT about the fish and is replaced with $$$ , its not longer angling.

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Guest RebelCarp

Rebel .... "I work for a union and im a union representative".......shocker bro........big shocker , nope not really , Im not surprised!!!!!! LMAO

Never said USA baits don't work , but be prepared to load them in a water to get the carp on them. I don't chum with boilies , no need when you use quality baits that catch from the introduction. I chum steam rolled corn and other particles and fish a method mix , the ONLY boilie (pop-up) that is in my swim is the one on the hair..and they search it out as it sticks out from the free baits...not blended in .

Tom , stop it with the puffs already , no ones listening...pay-pond fisherman aren't ANGLERS , sad they are even allowed to claim being fisherman...when the #1 drive is NOT about the fish and is replaced with $$$ , its not longer angling.

im searching steam rolled corn. Never heard of it. I will try this down the road. Thanks.

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Soooo the American/Canadian carp is a different genus??? The link you posted Lorne did not open, but I'd be interested to see what the scientific information was in relation to.

Seems that a few keep commenting that European carp are different because they are raised on boilies. This is not the case in the vast majority of fisheries. Apart from the few overstocked commercial fisheries carp can choose to feed on natural items or the anglers offerings. However, being an easier choice they often choose bait. Take England out of the equation and look at the other european countries where vast expanses of water are common. No way are carp dependent on anglers baits. Paylakes are a different matter and while I am not decrying the technique, it is in an artificial environment.

Carp (no matter which country they reside in) like boilies. However, like Tribal states the more effective baits are ones with long term food value. To say that 99% of anglers should fish puff and pack (Mr Big's statement) is somewhat biased. Boilies DO WORK and when used correctly the DO HELP target bigger fish. You can keep claiming otherwise but results of those that use this technique are hard to argue with. YES corn/puff/maize....will catch large fish BUT you will also catch smaller fish and other species which is exactly the reason boilies were developed, to avoid this.

Why some of you care that others use boilies is beyond me, and why you continue to claim they are not effective is curious.

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I'm not wasting my time getting involved in the anti boilie brigade, I think mine, deans and Brian's results all speak for themselves these past 2 years. Using geography is just an excuse, I caught on river creeks lakes, new waters, established waters, and always had fish the first time they saw the bait. I have even sat 6 feet away and watched them, and caught it all on underwater camera. Carp are carp, it's that simple.

Cop out of the year so far. :) Screw science. I know better. I suppose you believe that cave men rode dinosaurs around as well. :P JK.

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Soooo the American/Canadian carp is a different genus??? The link you posted Lorne did not open, but I'd be interested to see what the scientific information was in relation to.

Seems that a few keep commenting that European carp are different because they are raised on boilies. This is not the case in the vast majority of fisheries. Apart from the few overstocked commercial fisheries carp can choose to feed on natural items or the anglers offerings. However, being an easier choice they often choose bait. Take England out of the equation and look at the other european countries where vast expanses of water are common. No way are carp dependent on anglers baits. Paylakes are a different matter and while I am not decrying the technique, it is in an artificial environment.

Carp (no matter which country they reside in) like boilies. However, like Tribal states the more effective baits are ones with long term food value. To say that 99% of anglers should fish puff and pack (Mr Big's statement) is somewhat biased. Boilies DO WORK and when used correctly the DO HELP target bigger fish. You can keep claiming otherwise but results of those that use this technique are hard to argue with. YES corn/puff/maize....will catch large fish BUT you will also catch smaller fish and other species which is exactly the reason boilies were developed, to avoid this.

Why some of you care that others use boilies is beyond me, and why you continue to claim they are not effective is curious.

I don't understand why it won't work for you. I clicked on it and it worked for me. What it states clearly is that there are physiological differences in common carp based on where they live that affect their choice in foods . This is hard wiring for preferences in what they eat. It's an example of evolution.through selection. It does not say that carp won't eat boilies .

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YES corn/puff/maize....will catch large fish BUT you will also catch smaller fish and other species which is exactly the reason boilies were developed, to avoid this.

Why some of you care that others use boilies is beyond me, and why you continue to claim they are not effective is curious.

Before I found the puff, The boilie caught me small fish and lots of catfish. Then I found the Puff and my whole life changed. B)

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I'm not wasting my time getting involved in the anti boilie brigade, I think mine, deans and Brian's results all speak for themselves these past 2 years. Using geography is just an excuse, I caught on river creeks lakes, new waters, established waters, and always had fish the first time they saw the bait. I have even sat 6 feet away and watched them, and caught it all on underwater camera. Carp are carp, it's that simple.

I think your off base mate. No one here ever said that the boilie won't catch, just over rated here in the USA. When you can not rely on facts you just take your marbles/boilies and go home...

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I love it when there is a big pause after I post. :)

Sorry, I have a job that requires me to do more than sit at a computer all day responding to your posts :) I would also like to read the scientific report first before commenting, however if the gist of it is that carp choice their food sources based on the different waters that they reside in, then this is nothing new. It would be ironic if this is the case as according to Mr Big and others, 99% of us should all be using the same approach for every US water, which would be diametrically opposed to the scientific data.

Mr Big, you are fond of saying that us Euro anglers cannot possibly comprehend the complexities of your approach. I would state the same for boilie fishing, if you do not educate yourself on it, through years of experience and results then how can you comment and dismiss the approach. You obviously don't understand it, just like I don't understand the puff/pack approach. Fishing with others who toy with the approach doesn't count either. Unless you have a full understanding of how to make and use high quality boilies and have used them on many different bodies of water in many different countries then you could not possibly understand how they work! If this sounds pompous, imagine how the rest of us feel when you continually take the same position on your own style of fishing.

Anyway, back to work. I'll read the report if I can get it to open and comment later Hammer, just in case you think I have slunked away.

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Sorry, I have a job that requires me to do more than sit at a computer all day responding to your posts :) I would also like to read the scientific report first before commenting, however if the gist of it is that carp choice their food sources based on the different waters that they reside in, then this is nothing new. It would be ironic if this is the case as according to Mr Big and others, 99% of us should all be using the same approach for every US water, which would be diametrically opposed to the scientific data.

Mr Big, you are fond of saying that us Euro anglers cannot possibly comprehend the complexities of your approach. I would state the same for boilie fishing, if you do not educate yourself on it, through years of experience and results then how can you comment and dismiss the approach. You obviously don't understand it, just like I don't understand the puff/pack approach. Fishing with others who toy with the approach doesn't count either. Unless you have a full understanding of how to make and use high quality boilies and have used them on many different bodies of water in many different countries then you could not possibly understand how they work! If this sounds pompous, imagine how the rest of us feel when you continually take the same position on your own style of fishing.

Anyway, back to work. I'll read the report if I can get it to open and comment later Hammer, just in case you think I have slunked away.

I fished with my Brit partner for five years not to mention some of the best in Europe. I could take a walk through your mind and not even get my ancles wet m8.

ps. Just how many years have you fished with a Southern Paylaker as a partner?? NOON... Like I said, if you have not been experienced then how can you make such claimes??

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I fished with my Brit partner for five years not to mention some of the best in Europe. I could take a walk through your mind and not even get my ancles wet m8.

ps. Just how many years have you fished with a Southern Paylaker as a partner?? NOON... Like I said, if you have not been experienced then how can you make such claimes??

My initial thought is to tell you to fu#k off as once again your posts are nearly always disrespectful. You love to big yourself up at the expense of others and while you may be the nicest guy to fish with in person, once behind the keyboard your a Grade 'A' Knob.

I don't care who you have fished with, as I said you have not practiced this approach yourself and delved into the complexities so following your own twisted logic you are in no position to make judgements on those who have. Incidentally, I'm guessing the majority of times this was in competition(s), which as I have stated previously is an artificial environment and far removed from fishing in wild waters for wild carp.

P.S. I haven't fished with any Southern Paylakers but if your the top of the tree then I would prefer to avoid them at all costs. As for the comment of walking through my mind.....GROW UP. I'm happy to debate and discuss anything and everything to do with carp fishing but when it devolves into a pissing match, there's little point as your 'debates' are nothing more that ego stroking and slagging off anything you disagree with.

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My initial thought is to tell you to fu#k off as once again your posts are nearly always disrespectful. You love to big yourself up at the expense of others and while you may be the nicest guy to fish with in person, once behind the keyboard your a Grade 'A' Knob.

I don't care who you have fished with, as I said you have not practiced this approach yourself and delved into the complexities so following your own twisted logic you are in no position to make judgements on those who have. Incidentally, I'm guessing the majority of times this was in competition(s), which as I have stated previously is an artificial environment and far removed from fishing in wild waters for wild carp.

P.S. I haven't fished with any Southern Paylakers but if your the top of the tree then I would prefer to avoid them at all costs. As for the comment of walking through my mind.....GROW UP. I'm happy to debate and discuss anything and everything to do with carp fishing but when it devolves into a pissing match, there's little point as your 'debates' are nothing more that ego stroking and slagging off anything you disagree with.

Everything you've stated is false. Complete rubbish. You don't know a single thing of what I have done for more than 50 years. For starters I was raised, educated, and fished singing God bless the Queen each morning whist raising the Union Jack. I spent the better part of my life dealing with snobbs and know how to sift them out right quick. You've got some crust about you to even think such things. I would suggest you open your mind and listen grasshopper.

not jmho but fact.

On the Puff

GUS

Respectfully I remain

Tom.

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as I have stated previously is an artificial environment and far removed from fishing in wild waters for wild carp.

I use to only fish wild waters for wild carp with boilies, But now.....I only fish wild waters for wild carp with Pack and Puff. :party0012icon:

Edited by Carphd

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I use to only fish wild waters for wild carp with boilies, But now.....I only fish wild waters for wild carp with Pack and Puff. :party0012icon:

Good for you, I wish you the best of luck.

Everything you've stated is false. Complete rubbish. You don't know a single thing of what I have done for more than 50 years. For starters I was raised, educated, and fished singing God bless the Queen each morning whist raising the Union Jack. I spent the better part of my life dealing with snobbs and know how to sift them out right quick. You've got some crust about you to even think such things. I would suggest you open your mind and listen grasshopper.

not jmho but fact.

On the Puff

GUS

Respectfully I remain

Tom.

I bet that's the first time anyone born and bred in Stoke, England has been called a 'snob'. By the way, you can slag the Queen off all you want as I have no love for the royals. Water off a duck's back to me.

I base my own comments on how you interact with not only myself, but many, many others on this forum. You claim all your own statements as 'Fact' and totally dismiss anyone who disagree's. Just because you put 'respectfully' at the bottom of your posts doesn't give you free reign to belittle others and you are not the only one with experience on this site! Lots of anglers on here have varying levels of expertise and experience and all have the right to their own opinions, whether based in fact or not. With open discussion we can all benefit.

My mind is very open, that's why I prefer not to listen to your constant drivel that you keep stating as 'fact'. I will refrain from commenting on your future posts and comments as I wouldn't want my snobbish attitude to cloud the water, so to speak. If you want further discussion just PM me, as there's little point in hijacking this thread with personal attacks.

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