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Willem (JD)

Carp World Records & Euro Paylake Carp

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hawkwise   

I am willing to bet that the same discussion that is going on here is taking place on many carp angling forums in Europe. I feel that there are many good carp anglers over there faced with an increasingly crappy carp fishing scene. Some have reacted to this by joining CAG and it's forum. Others are booking their vacations to fish here. Let's face it. It's is over commercialized ,over popular , over done and on it's way to being over.

Shawn that fish leaves me cold. I wouldn't pay a plug nickle for a chance to do what that guy did. No more than I'd pay a farmer so that I could go and shoot one of his Holstein dairy cattle.

Some body was bound to catch that fish. It is set up to be that way. It is contrived.

Those that praise this kind act cannot see past the end of their.....rods. Over here a really big carp , say over 50 lbs could live out it's entire life and never see a baited hook never mind being caught before. If you took the time to think about what it takes to produce a really big fish here and then think about what it takes to catch one you would realize the difference. There is no comparison.

Yes he caught a world record carp according to a set of rules. So what. The Ontario record is broken all the time and nobody that is a carp angler will submit their catch because sometimes the rules suck.

Yepp ....

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Guest BCLT   
Guest BCLT

You aren't very bright are you,...maybe start reading might do the trick... Les Graviers IS Rainbow Lake!!!!

For anyone else that was wondering -

Les Graviers - http://www.lukemoffatt.com/

and

Lac du Curton - http://www.rainbow-l...m/Gb/index.html

I note that you mention ECHO in your previous post as well. You seemed to ommit their motto from your FACTS too 'Education, not condemnation'- consider yourself educated (and not condemned) :D

IMO the biggest problem with European fishing is the bitching and backbiting between anglers there. Seems that it seems to be spreading to Canada as well :(

I love this....... pot calling the kettle black!

I would really love to see the end of this post........ And hopefully this doesnt happen again in the Canadian section.......where are our chairs? Do I need to speak on behalf of everyone by saying moderators clean this up........... delete the name calling and attacks, leave the collective discussion, and usefull information.

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If anybody feels that forum rules are being broken they can report that post. Just click on the button in the lower right hand corner .

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Guest BCLT   
Guest BCLT

Lorne its not always about formal rules being broken......... do you want arguing, name calling, and belittling of members in the section you worked hard to build up?

I know I dont

Reported..........Arvand?

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hairwig   

I love this....... pot calling the kettle black!

I would really love to see the end of this post........ And hopefully this doesnt happen again in the Canadian section.......where are our chairs? Do I need to speak on behalf of everyone by saying moderators clean this up........... delete the name calling and attacks, leave the collective discussion, and usefull information.

Hi Shawn

I didnt get involved with this thread or any other chest thumping thread I've read on the site or others because I learned a long time ago there is no point. It's my understanding that as long as the 'rules' are not broken the thread can go on until the cows come home. It's not my role as a chair to be obligated to step in. Like Lorne said -It's the mods job. I agree with you on ending the thead.

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If you feel that someone is out of line than you can PM them and clear it up.

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Arvand   

This post was just to let you guys know of a big fish caught in Europe setting a new world record. There was never any intention of getting things so heated up, and getting members to attack each other. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but no one has the right to insult others. Anyhow like life itself I have learnt allot from this forum. Take care guys!

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Arvand

World records always invite comment. Both positive and negative. Some people feel strongly about where the sport is going here in North America . I viewed this post's discussion as just that. Some posts went a little too far in personal comments but not nearly as far as other posts have gone on this forum.

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Guest BCLT   
Guest BCLT

point proven, you let things slide and this is what happens, you lose members, continue to let threads like this go and Ontario will be right back to where it was a few years ago when I joined......three members contributing, Lorne, Mark and myself.

This is a pay to play group right.......so there should be a higher standard involved. Think of a open golf coarse vs a membership club, at a member ship club there is a higher standard, nicer fairways, nicer greens, nicer drinks and food etc........ If we dont care about how members are treated and the standards of our content, it should be an open to everyone forum.......its really that simple.

Im amazed that someone who comes from England, comes to Canada, pays to join our group only to have non paying members question his intelligance and call him "not bright" and we let it slide. Not to mention the argument the guy was making was WRONG lol - Good job Rainbow lake..........

You should never assume things are okay based on the past.........just because "it was worst in the past" doesnt make it okay today....... Ive smelt worst in the past, does that mean I dont need to shower today?

Ps it was mainly one guy that felt the need to bash peoples intelligence, knowledge etc, and continually argue points.

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KingCarp   

Its a shame that people on internet think there are no rules and every nobody can take his pick at anybody.

Unfortunately also CAG had and has this problem from time to time.

Mario started to provoke me, as he did before, when I greeted his very first post, here on CAG, so shame on your director…he was only trying to make this personal…and the reason for my statement that followed.

[Mario Kok@; I claim bull.... on your statement above. If you were to catch a fat mirror in the wild, you would kill it? Please tell me why you are even on the CAG forum.]

BCLT@; your arguments fail to make sense, your comments were wrong and instead of admitting that, you too choose to belittle me…some of your friends did much the same way,..I think I countered you the way you intended to hurt me. [even PBed you to explain]

You're quite happy I piled Gravers and Rainbow on the same s&^% pile, but fail to understand its just one MORE questionable Paylake , it only proves you guys know more European Paylakes than I do, some even fished there…and please don't say that Rainbow isn't controversial…if you want to catch one of the former World Records there, you have to wait at least 2 years, that long is the waiting list.

Its very sad NOBODY spoke one word on behalf of the shocking example Arvand posted, 3rd attempt….800 carp 20-30 kg….141 carp 30-39,9 kg….3 carp more than 40kg…for 11ha.

For a healthy water system, in Holland we advise no more than 200-250 kg of carp per ha

The example of Euro-aqua is 11 ha for ±25000kg of carp, or more than 2000 kilo per ha…almost 10x our advise!

For some the weight is more important than the well-being of carp.

I'm glad Lorne did get it is intended to educate NA anglers and although I regret the way this goes, I'm not a willing victim, remember that!

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Robert H   

point proven, you let things slide and this is what happens, you lose members, continue to let threads like this go and Ontario will be right back to where it was a few years ago when I joined......three members contributing, Lorne, Mark and myself.

This is a pay to play group right.......so there should be a higher standard involved. Think of a open golf coarse vs a membership club, at a member ship club there is a higher standard, nicer fairways, nicer greens, nicer drinks and food etc........ If we dont care about how members are treated and the standards of our content, it should be an open to everyone forum.......its really that simple.

Im amazed that someone who comes from England, comes to Canada, pays to join our group only to have non paying members question his intelligance and call him "not bright" and we let it slide. Not to mention the argument the guy was making was WRONG lol - Good job Rainbow lake..........

You should never assume things are okay based on the past.........just because "it was worst in the past" doesnt make it okay today....... Ive smelt worst in the past, does that mean I dont need to shower today?

Ps it was mainly one guy that felt the need to bash peoples intelligence, knowledge etc, and continually argue points.

well Said Shawn and I think you are right on the money

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Robert H   

KIng Carp you continue to Antagonize people and try to belittle them. You feel that People are out to get you maybe you are paranoid because of the way you treat and act towards other. We are for the most parts adults here and maybe we should start acting that way.

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jaminsk1   

I fail to see how you can question the whole concept of paylakes in Europe and claim they are controversial?

It is the way they do things in Europe. It is an area of the world that has an extremely high population density and there is an extreme demand for leisure activities and space (waters in this case) to do that. In the SE of the UK for example, the only free area's to fish are usually only that way because of ancient decree's (the magna carta declaring free fishing on The Thames through London) - apart from that it is usually private land owned by private individuals who decide who they want to fish on it.

It is not a question of pay lakes are rubbish and we shouldn't have them - they are there and that's they way they do things. In NA most of the venues are free - that's because hardly anyone is fishing them and there is no demand here - if people could charge for the fishing, then they would at the drop of a hat, don't forget that. My friends in the UK think it is absolutely mental that fishing here is free considering the quality of the fishing and I personally think that anyone who pays for a guide over here is mad as well, but that's they way things are...

Possibly questioning the stocking procedures of this hungarian venue is ok but to then place all venues where all previous world records have come from under the same boat as this lake is wrong as they are all different venues with different rules and management styles. They are different lakes and the fish have grown to these maximum weights because of anomally's in the venues - whether it is human or natural cause. They are not all fat ugly pigs as well so that gernalisation is wrong too.

For example this fish is the current / previous world record common -

Pelzer%2BMary.jpg

How can you say that, that is an ugly anomally? It has come from a private syndicate lake where the anglers concerned equally pay for the landowner for the rights to fish the lake and all contribute towards the fishery management. I believe the fishery has also got a 70+ mirror carp in too - it is private but well managed.

It is also worth pointing out that until relatively recently through the actions of the french carp fishing group CAMOU, that it was perfectly legal to move fish from public waters and place them in private lakes. A lot of venues did nothing illegal (although you could say it was morally wrong).

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Guys, if you feel someone is out of line, please by all means use the REPORT button. That makes all our lives a lot easier. ;)

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I really hope that no one gets "reported" from this thread. As far as I'm concerned, everyone contributed very interesting information, especially KingCarp. I didn't realize until I read KingCarp's contribution how sick this whole producing a world record carp endeavor has become in Europe :(

KingCarp did go on the defensive but so did others. If KingCarp gets "reported" I feel it's only fair that others who went on the defensive get reported too. I think this reporting thing is silly unless someone does something really bad. But I don't think anyone got hurt from the thread (I hope not). And plus, if people are going to participate on forums, they need to develop a thick skin. And I know that Mario has thick skin like me :) . By the way, it's very difficult to offend me because I have very thick hair covering my body like a wolf :D :D :D

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KingCarp   

As there hardly is any public carp water in the UK, prices for licenses have historically been very high..so for Brits is much easier to say its OK. I think the avarage UK carpangler has trouble catching 10 carp a year.

In Holland the serious websites don't want any mention of paylakes nor world records anymore. And unfortunatley they move a lot of carp from lake to lake. In Holland we have professional fishermen with fishing rights going back a few hundred years...more and more carp dissapear. The rules were changed much too late in France and many of the big carp from public waters are now swimming in Paylakes.

Its probably to late to say no to PL...I agree and a personal choice.

The German venue in my view is as bad as any...also I wouldn't want to be found dead near this pond.

It may look a bit better than those Hungarians, but no way it is a normal fish. Worst of it all, look how they make photo's...you'd think they show us a 150lb carp. If you don't think its an ugly mud I can live with that too.

This is my last reaction, you can decide for yourself howfar you let things go in N.A.

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I did receive reports. NOT for opinions but for going personal.

Many CAG members do not like the way guests behave and attack others in their replies.

KingCarp, although you've been on the CAG forum for many years, every single comment you made in the last couple years ( besides photography) are negative.

Based on reports received, many CAG members don't mind your opinion, but don't like your personal attacks on people.

If you wish to call people dumb or morons, do so in Private, even better, don't.

Nobody attacked you as claimed. Members simply quoted some of your previous rants.

The Canadian section is one of the most productive and positive sections on the CAG forum.

If you wish to discuss the validity of Euro Caught Record Carp, start a discussion in the Members section "Off Topic" and have a civil discussion there.

Regards

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jaminsk1   

As there hardly is any public carp water in the UK, prices for licenses have historically been very high..so for Brits is much easier to say its OK. I think the avarage UK carpangler has trouble catching 10 carp a year.

this statement is actually quite wrong. prices have risen dramatically over recent years due to demand of decent leisure venues - same as golf courses etc. The better the venue the more the cost. I would say it is only in the last 10-15 years that the prices have really escalated and this has been driven by the consumer (and media).

10 carp a year? :lol: I can only speak for myself and my friends who maybe aren't average (below average I would say :D) but the fishing isn't that bad!!!

In Holland the serious websites don't want any mention of paylakes nor world records anymore.

in the uk there is possibly the same sort of movement but these opinions are full of double standards and said anglers are often happy to angle for big stocked 'history' fish - The Cemex water 'Horton' being a prime example. I would go as far to say that these opinions are not of the general angling public but generally people that are self important and are in danger of disappearing up their own backsides.

Its probably to late to say no to PL...I agree and a personal choice.

paylakes are driven by capitalism. end of. if there is a demand for it then people will make a living from it. human nature I'm afraid. maybe all ski hills and golf courses should be free for everyone too? they aren't becasue they need to be looked after and adminstered to a high standard that people are willing to errrr.... pay for?

The German venue in my view is as bad as any...also I wouldn't want to be found dead near this pond.

careful fishery management means that fish grow well. what are they supposed to do? kill it because it grows too big? it still looks well proportioned and beautiful in many peoples eyes.

Worst of it all, look how they make photo's...you'd think they show us a 150lb carp. If you don't think its an ugly mud I can live with that too.

Actually I think you will find that it is almost impossible to hold a carp of that size out at arms length. odds are that the fish is held against the body. google 'german world record carp' and look at the images to see the size of this fish. the reason it appears to look absolutely massive is because it is. Tim Paisley has written a couple of interesting articles on this and anyone who has held a truly massive fish (25kg+) will no doubt agree on this.

If you are going to try and convince people to share your views then at least base your opinions on truth. Now unfortunately there will be people on this forum thinking the world record venues are all bad and pay lakes are barbaric holes in the ground full of ugly fish.

Not all European pay lakes that contain world record fish are driven by money making greedy owners - there are plenty of good guys out there too and some world class fisheries, as I feel the German lake and Les Graviers are - both could make a lot more money from opening the lakes up to more anglers but neither do and have strict access rules. Les Graviers is open to all - anyone can phone for a weeks booking.

It is worth noting that the public venues are in trouble in europe too - Lac Du Cassien - possibly the most famous carp lake in france and regarded by many as the mecca is about to ban night fishing permanently. This is due to the banks being overun by carp anglers, violence between guides trying to get in the going swims, rubbish being left everywhere and the surrounding area being covered in faeces left by camping anglers. The place is free and open to all. You have to wonder if it was restricted, had people looking after it (which would cost money) that these issues wouldn't be there and the lake would still be available for anyone to enjoy, although there maybe a bit of a wait to get a spot on the banks...

Not all pay lakes are bad and in turn not all open access lakes are good. It is wrong to completely generalise and lump them all together in a one size fits all notion.

As with all things in life - it's about a balance.

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some of you guys are full of it!!! (making suggestions to "report people") this is ridiculous

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some of you guys are full of it!!! (making suggestions to "report people") this is ridiculous

I don't mean to stir the pot but I agree. I don't like this "report" button at all. It seems really childish.

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Guys, that button is there for a reason. Few people can make time to read every single post on this forum. Hitting the button informs the mods that something needs to be checked. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think enough has been said about this back and fourth bickering. Willem has been pretty clear. ;)

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Haha, almost funny Mario, but anybody who knows me will tell you different, I hate those fat f%&$# and never said anything about normal looking mirror carp!!

You choose to ridicule my warnings to sportsfishermen to ignore these consumption carp and obviously like to even promote them. You're a bit of a media ho, if you ask me. But you don't charge!

And I will ignore your attempts to piss me off, you already did that years ago.

Cheers, and specially for you a choice of records.

fatwomen.jpg....

The redhead is really cute , got her number ???

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