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Prefessa

Boilie Calculator

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Go easy on me guys lol! Now when I fish these boilies, the skin does lightly break down, when I soak them the water in the bucket goes milky.......overall they hold really well on the hair and I rarely face issues with gobies etc. I have tried to make it as cheap as possible as you may tell...... Now im currently attempting to come up with a way to use chicken feed as a base ingredient......as it has aminos, fat, protien and is only 14 dollars for 55 pounds where as soy flour, semolina and corn meal are more expensive.......what are your thoughts? I will still need a binder?

fishmeal/belacan 100

soy flour 200

semolina 200

corn meal 200

hemp seed/nyger 120

chilli powder 35

sea Salt 15

Kelp 100

Calcium 30

total 1000

"Now im currently attempting to come up with a way to use chicken feed as a base"- Shawn

I will save you some trouble , I've taken that path and the results were smaller fish on than on plain maize . Chicken feed dragged my avg down by a few lbs , Maybe my other ingredients did not go well with it , but you will never see C.F. in any of my recipes again. Not criticizing jus trying to save you some frustration with my findings . Think rearing food

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Between this thread and the one on the bacteria bombs it seems that all the focus is on the atractors contained within geting out, there was a time when i was using a Premier fishmeal base mix with no flavouring and about 5mil per egg of CSL and did well on it which would go along with prefesa's findings.

Hutchinson explained that the base mix was the food and flavouring was just a label to help fish find it. They need to know its food first which is why they usually need to find them a few times over a period of time before they seek em out.

All of this points to carp having a poor sense of smell if its got to be so obvious ! i know your all going to ridicule me for making that statement LOL

This is based on 3 small lakes ive fished where you can put out boilies and wait hours for so much as a twitch from a carp but turtles can find them within 5 minutes is their sense of smell that powerfull or carps dull.

Any one tried dried yogurt in boilies ?

There was an ingredient in the UK years ago by the name of Prutien, it was some kind of animal feed and came in pellets which had to be ground down, i was given a bag of this that someone had allready ground, it was an awsome bait until it became commercially availble and was ready ground, never did any good on that, would love to know more about this substance if any of you guys from back there were privvy to the stuff on the secret list back then.

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Guest BCLT

"Now im currently attempting to come up with a way to use chicken feed as a base"- Shawn

I will save you some trouble , I've taken that path and the results were smaller fish on than on plain maize . Chicken feed dragged my avg down by a few lbs , Maybe my other ingredients did not go well with it , but you will never see C.F. in any of my recipes again. Not criticizing jus trying to save you some frustration with my findings . Think rearing food

hey man, no worries buddy, no need to set me straight on criticizing, I always respect your opinions......... was your feed egg layer, finisher, primer? just wondering, I have access to three types here, all of which have different levels of aminos, crude fats, and proteins....... im still temped to give it a go..........now tell me, did you do feed/semolina or feed/wheat flour and if so, what kind of ratios?

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hey man, no worries buddy, no need to set me straight on criticizing, I always respect your opinions......... was your feed egg layer, finisher, primer? just wondering, I have access to three types here, all of which have different levels of aminos, crude fats, and proteins....... im still temped to give it a go..........now tell me, did you do feed/semolina or feed/wheat flour and if so, what kind of ratios?

The stuff I tried was Purina chicken crumble , I was HIGHLY disappointed with results . seemed I stumbled onto a low teen magnet with that recipe . Zero long term effectiveness , and the second maize rod was outfishing it with bigger and more . recipe was a 1and 1 mix 1cup chicken crumble 1 cup semo 1 cup bread flour , Like I mentioned earlier maybe it was the combination of those ingredients but that exact recipe STEER CLEAR !!

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got ya man, got ya...........hmmmmmm has me thinking for sure...... ill have to work on it for sure but I really want to find a way to get the cost to below 4 bucks a Kg but yet still yeild nutritional value..........and for 55 pounds for just over ten bucks.......it would be more than ideal to find a way to sort it out...........ill post the nutritional values of the feed im using as method and hopefully someone can chime in with some advice!

Thanks Ken, as always.......appreciated buddy

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got ya man, got ya...........hmmmmmm has me thinking for sure...... ill have to work on it for sure but I really want to find a way to get the cost to below 4 bucks a Kg but yet still yeild nutritional value..........and for 55 pounds for just over ten bucks.......it would be more than ideal to find a way to sort it out...........ill post the nutritional values of the feed im using as method and hopefully someone can chime in with some advice!

Thanks Ken, as always.......appreciated buddy

4 bucks a KG is a really lofty goal , you should figure with the cost of eggs , sweetner and flavor alone could put you close to four bucks a kg . 2 bucks a lbs will make you a top notch base mix . Then add eggs , flavor sweetner , should put you round 4 bucks a lbs, not kg . BUT, your getting a product you can fish with confidence and still save 4 bucks a lbs on the going market rate of 8 bucks per lbs .

I see your avatar shows a K1 sponsorship , maybe you could work something out with them for basemix at a reduced cost . K1 has always made a quality bait JMHO .

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There was an ingredient in the UK years ago by the name of Prutien, it was some kind of animal feed and came in pellets which had to be ground down, i was given a bag of this that someone had allready ground, it was an awsome bait until it became commercially availble and was ready ground, never did any good on that, would love to know more about this substance if any of you guys from back there were privvy to the stuff on the secret list back then.

Baitbucket:

From what I could figure out...Prutein=Range Cubes. These have a proven track record of taking carp. It is likelly a mixture of Vegan Proteins coming from one if not all of: Cottonseed Meal, Soybean Meal, Corn Gluten Meal and Brewers Dried Yeast mixed with Wheat Middlings. Remeber that Farmers want return on investment so the stuff is made from high protein edible waste products from other industries. Any Agricultural feed store has these in various protein values.

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Baitbucket:

From what I could figure out...Prutein=Range Cubes. These have a proven track record of taking carp. It is likelly a mixture of Vegan Proteins coming from one if not all of: Cottonseed Meal, Soybean Meal, Corn Gluten Meal and Brewers Dried Yeast mixed with Wheat Middlings. Remeber that Farmers want return on investment so the stuff is made from high protein edible waste products from other industries. Any Agricultural feed store has these in various protein values.

Thanks, the prutien was light colour, just off white and i think the pellets were small, like calf manna pellets, nearest thing ive seen was some pellets a friend had that were supposed to be catfish farming food.

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4 bucks a KG is a really lofty goal , you should figure with the cost of eggs , sweetner and flavor alone could put you close to four bucks a kg . 2 bucks a lbs will make you a top notch base mix . Then add eggs , flavor sweetner , should put you round 4 bucks a lbs, not kg . BUT, your getting a product you can fish with confidence and still save 4 bucks a lbs on the going market rate of 8 bucks per lbs .

I see your avatar shows a K1 sponsorship , maybe you could work something out with them for basemix at a reduced cost . K1 has always made a quality bait JMHO .

Right now my mix, including eggs, all in is 4.59 a kg......I source out my ingredients and only buy it in bulk, now if I can take away an ingredient, preferably the corn meal, soy flour, reducing it by 2 dollars, adding .11 (chicken feed) the boilies will cost 2.70 a Kg.......still have a fair protein content, binder, calcium and amino content.......... I will take some recent advice on the thread and switch to wheat flour...... I honestly think its all about where you get your stuff, you can buy fish meal for 10 a kg, or you can buy wholesale feeder pellets at 40 bucks for 25kg......grocery store eggs 18 for 4 bucks, or 60 for 10 bucks at cosco.......this fall I will be baiting up a few of my private swims with boilies and am hoping and hope for some big things to happen.............fingers crossed I guess.

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Guys:

Just want to add to this....I think the boile is a very misunderstood bait in the USA...folks used to "Instants" will be immediately dissapointed when fishing these as hook baits. Yes once they get established...they become serviceable hookbaits, but.....

Lets compare the Paylakers "Pickup" to a boilie shall we??? I have fished SPL style for quite some time and I tell you...as much as a Plain Puff is a decent hook bait...It sucks in comparison to a true "Pickup"...in other words a plain puff becomes a pickup when boosted by substances that "Trigger a Strike". So a Paylaker will have loads of secret triggers that when added to the lowly puff...the fish Got to have it! It becomes the most attractive thing in the bait pile.

So why would you think that a boilie is any different?? If you simply add together a bunch of stuff that makes great paste, method or packbait an add egg and boil it...guess what....you wont get a sniff on it! Why...Use the Boilie calculator..Take Some Oats, and Grits and Wheat Bran...the calculator gives that a 100% Instant Value...no add eggs it drops to the mid to low 80's...so why whould a carp choose a bait like this, when your method, pack or groundbait is 100% Instant?? You might as well be fishing a wooden bead.

Sooo...what to do?? Take a page from the Paylakers handbook....You have to put the attraction back in that the egg has killed! There isn't a boilie formula in Europe that doesn't use something in there that will leak out and make them instant...at least not the ones that wind up on the hair...the Brits call em "Boosted Hookbaits". I know that they want to sell products, but most boilie recipes destined for hookbaits have loads of Minamino, CSL, or Yeast Extract in them...they always chuck un betaine (Which BTW...DOES NOTHING!). Whether any of these products are any good is not the point...the point is that if your boilie is a hook bait it needs help, just like an Arrowhead Mills Corn Puff needs Help to trigger a strike!

If you read Marios article you will see he has his private concoctions that when added to boilies boost the attractiveness.

As for multi day baiting...yes the longer boilies soak, the more instant they become...and if the carp like the flavor...they will come back for more. Once they are recognized as a food source...they will become serviceable "pickups".

I have used the calculator to formulate a base mix that is ~30% Protein and 98+ on instant Attraction and 90+ on Rolling/Handling....Will be experimenting with these on some waters where boilies are not established and see how I do.

Also the Big FIsh Selectivity....has been proven time and time again...bigger average size with smaller overall numbers of fish....Big Mature Carp get that way by eating proteinacous ingredients in the wild...like Shellfish! They are used to hard foods, they have powerfull molars. These fish are conditioned to Protein and they expect a protein containing food to not be soft. All US waters I have fished boilies in that have a natural abundance of shellfish I have caught fish with boilies straight away without prebaiting. Waters where there is little natural food, except for seeds, insects and detritus...good luck! There are waters in the USA that the fish are so conditioned that it would take some very expensive programs to get the fish onto boilies and if the venue doesn't have big fish...whats the point??

The concusion here is that boilies have there time and place in the carp anglers aresenal....there are likely more bad boilie users in the USA, then there are bad boilies! Although I have Seen some boile formulas on this board that just make me roll my eyes. Anyone who is gluing together semolina, corn meal and Kool Aid together with egg and boiliing it is just asking for disapointing results. You may get the odd fish...but there are Paylakers in the North that use wooden beads and catch fish also.

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:icon_smoking:

Tom.

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Guys:

Just want to add to this....I think the boile is a very misunderstood bait in the USA...folks used to "Instants" will be immediately dissapointed when fishing these as hook baits. Yes once they get established...they become serviceable hookbaits, but.....

Lets compare the Paylakers "Pickup" to a boilie shall we??? I have fished SPL style for quite some time and I tell you...as much as a Plain Puff is a decent hook bait...It sucks in comparison to a true "Pickup"...in other words a plain puff becomes a pickup when boosted by substances that "Trigger a Strike". So a Paylaker will have loads of secret triggers that when added to the lowly puff...the fish Got to have it! It becomes the most attractive thing in the bait pile.

So why would you think that a boilie is any different?? If you simply add together a bunch of stuff that makes great paste, method or packbait an add egg and boil it...guess what....you wont get a sniff on it! Why...Use the Boilie calculator..Take Some Oats, and Grits and Wheat Bran...the calculator gives that a 100% Instant Value...no add eggs it drops to the mid to low 80's...so why whould a carp choose a bait like this, when your method, pack or groundbait is 100% Instant?? You might as well be fishing a wooden bead.

Sooo...what to do?? Take a page from the Paylakers handbook....You have to put the attraction back in that the egg has killed! There isn't a boilie formula in Europe that doesn't use something in there that will leak out and make them instant...at least not the ones that wind up on the hair...the Brits call em "Boosted Hookbaits". I know that they want to sell products, but most boilie recipes destined for hookbaits have loads of Minamino, CSL, or Yeast Extract in them...they always chuck un betaine (Which BTW...DOES NOTHING!). Whether any of these products are any good is not the point...the point is that if your boilie is a hook bait it needs help, just like an Arrowhead Mills Corn Puff needs Help to trigger a strike!

If you read Marios article you will see he has his private concoctions that when added to boilies boost the attractiveness.

As for multi day baiting...yes the longer boilies soak, the more instant they become...and if the carp like the flavor...they will come back for more. Once they are recognized as a food source...they will become serviceable "pickups".

I have used the calculator to formulate a base mix that is ~30% Protein and 98+ on instant Attraction and 90+ on Rolling/Handling....Will be experimenting with these on some waters where boilies are not established and see how I do.

Also the Big FIsh Selectivity....has been proven time and time again...bigger average size with smaller overall numbers of fish....Big Mature Carp get that way by eating proteinacous ingredients in the wild...like Shellfish! They are used to hard foods, they have powerfull molars. These fish are conditioned to Protein and they expect a protein containing food to not be soft. All US waters I have fished boilies in that have a natural abundance of shellfish I have caught fish with boilies straight away without prebaiting. Waters where there is little natural food, except for seeds, insects and detritus...good luck! There are waters in the USA that the fish are so conditioned that it would take some very expensive programs to get the fish onto boilies and if the venue doesn't have big fish...whats the point??

The concusion here is that boilies have there time and place in the carp anglers aresenal....there are likely more bad boilie users in the USA, then there are bad boilies! Although I have Seen some boile formulas on this board that just make me roll my eyes. Anyone who is gluing together semolina, corn meal and Kool Aid together with egg and boiliing it is just asking for disapointing results. You may get the odd fish...but there are Paylakers in the North that use wooden beads and catch fish also.

Somebody gets it. B)

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Guest BCLT

Ok im a little dumb founded now.......... is this saying that "glueing" semolina with corn meal and eggs is a bad thing? is it the eggs that is bad, or is it the lack of protien the bad part...........? if so......in regards to the percentage of protein in the mix (dry) - what is the minimum? You were kind enough to check out my mix and said it wasnt too bad, but someone, (cant remember, too lazy to check) suggested switching to wheat flour......instead of semolina...... if you could be brutally honest with me on that mix, I wouldnt hold any hard feelings? I want it to be effective but at the same time I dont want to go overboard and the technical aspects of it............

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BCLT:

To Be brutally honest...YES your mix is a good one!!. The Wheat Flour was my suggestion for 3 reasons....1st its cheaper, 2nd its more attractive since the Germ and Bran is intact, third the fiber encourages leakage. I also suggested a switch to animal grade soy and maize and spend some time grinding it down. The difference between Human Food and Animal Food based Grain Products is cleanliness and cost. (More Dirty and Cheaper to buy animal grade product.) Chick starter is like coarse corn meal. And Bean Meal is Coarse Soy Flour(Defatted)...get my drift??? With a little grinding..viola' you have flour fit for boilies and not human consumption.

Now...Egg can seal off a boilie with a high carbohydrate base, so that it essentially becomes waterproof. A boilie needs to hydrate to fully communicate a food signal. From the Boilie Calculator anything in the 20-30% protein range can be made into a fairly good bait. My Preference is to target ~30% as it seems to be the highest level of protein you can develop instant baits with and they suffer the least amount of "Instantness" Loss when Egg is added. Also with that level of nutrition you should be able to catch fish on these baits year round. A bait less than 20% Protein can be instant, but may blow after ahwhile if used time after time for massive baiting programs...also CRAP baits made with no protein at all...suffer the biggest loss of Intant Attraction when Eggs are added and their boilied. Like I said...I know guys that have caught fish with a Corn meal, Semo and Kool Aid mix...that scratch there head when they catch one day and blank the next.

Now....HNV...Once a Base mix gets to much more than 35% Protein....its scary expensive and the intant attraction goes Waaaay down. The waters in the USA have such huge bodies of carp you would go broke prebaiting with these. The True HNV baits of Fred Wilton was formulated to condition fish in tough waters with low stocking density and while protein is a good thing....remember what they say about too much of a good thing. Also Wilton fished at a time when protein was a fairly new addition to baits and felt that the fish could be conditioned to ignore baits of lesser nutritional value. Funny though...his original baits were pastes!! Not Boilies. For instance....Nutrabaits makes a Milk Protein Based Bait Called Hi-Nu-Val....its over 2x the cost per Kilo than anything they sell!!

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