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Guest flygreg

Situation Help???

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Guest flygreg

Have a bunch of carp located. Most are suspended and stationary over deep water. Have not been successful with them. On fringes 3-4 foot of water see several fish working the bottom. Here is the problem: Water is dingy enough you can make out shape and see movement, but can't see enough detail to see strike, gill flare, etc. Have managed a couple fish and foul hooked a couple (setting hook on what I thought was a take). I feel like the fish are probably sucking up the fly, but can't be sure.

Anyone have thoughts on how to see or feel the take better? Have not tried an indicator, but considering that option. Thinking indicator might almost work like a small bobber and emphasize line movement. Anyone with experience in that area?

PS - My first attempt at posting. Hope this works out.

THANKS!!!!

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I've used indicators in rivers where you can drift a fly, they work. If you can see any shape at all though, i'd stick with no indicator. try to put the fly to the side of the fish, and then set the hook when the shape changes position. Pretty tough spot from the sound of it!

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Guest phonebush

flygreg,

First, WELCOME TO THE CAG BOARD ! !

Your post came through loud and clear.

John, is a really successful carp flyfisherman. Listen to him.

I have only limited experience with your delimma. When it did occur the few times I've fly fished I was told to use "artifical trash" as my indicator. Seemed to work the few time I've used it.

Phone

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Guest Windknot

I fish what sounds like very similar water. I used John's advice to watch for movement towards the fly and slowly strip the fly and if I feel resistance I strip harder to set the hook. I have to admit that I don't hook all that many but to me that is part of the allure of fishing for carp. When you catch one on a fly you know that you have accomplished something.

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Guest Lee Baermann

If you are using a floating line, let the spot where your leader meets the fly line be your indicator. I fish nothing but muddy water and I use this system, if its a system, and it works for me. When you twitch the fly back towards you, watch that spot. If it stops, side strike, if it keeps coming back towards you, repeat as needed.

Also try to key in on the carp's back if you can see it. There appears to be a thin black line down the middle, all fish seem to have this silhouette, and I'll watch for any movement other then the direction it was previously traveling.

The more you fish and try these techniques, the easier it'll get. I've taught them to my clients and a good buddy and he catches as many as I do now.

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If you are using a floating line, let the spot where your leader meets the fly line be your indicator. I fish nothing but muddy water and I use this system, if its a system, and it works for me. When you twitch the fly back towards you, watch that spot. If it stops, side strike, if it keeps coming back towards you, repeat as needed.

Also try to key in on the carp's back if you can see it. There appears to be a thin black line down the middle, all fish seem to have this silhouette, and I'll watch for any movement other then the direction it was previously traveling.

The more you fish and try these techniques, the easier it'll get. I've taught them to my clients and a good buddy and he catches as many as I do now.

Very sound advice! I agree 100%.

Ray

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Guest flygreg

Want to thank all for your suggestions. Wind was real bad in the area today so I couldn't really test the plan. I haven't had to fish this deep before or at least with dingy water to deal with at the same time. THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

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If the water is very murky use this to your advantage and get close to the fish if possible. I just don't see takes as far as line movement so indicators wouldn't be for me, I also don't feel strikes. I like your comment on setting the hook when you think it is right. I just finished watching a czech nymphing video and they were fishing grayling. A guy on the US fly fishing team was given a place to fish and told the fish are they go catch them. He fish for a bit of time with no or little success. The guy that was teaching him Vladi, a world champion polish nympher, came down and took the rod away from him and caught grayling on his first cast. When the US team guy asked him how he did that he went on to tell a story about knowing where the fish are and setting the hook when the fish should have eaten the fly if a fish was going to eat the fly. Now what does grayling fishing have to do with carp fishing?

You are close to the carp, position the fly where it will be on the feeding end of the fish and when it doubt hook set! I think that you are absolutely right in that you are probably getting bit, but don't recognize it as a bite and therefore miss fish. John's comments on watching the fish change position is a key point. Lee is a master at fishing in the muddy stuff. I like to key in on somehting that I can see and take the visual ques to hook set. Keep at it and hook set often. Remember that carp don't eat with their tails. Not trying to be funny, just trying to empasize that the hook has to not only be close to the fish, but be close to the eating end of the fish.

Rick

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Guest Windknot

Clay34 your post reminds me of a video I saw a couple of years ago. They used underwater cameras to watch nymphs as fisherman fished them. They found that the vast majority of strikes were missed by even the best nymph fisherman. If I see the fish close to where I believe my fly to be I do a slow strip set and set stronger if I feel resistance. The problem is spooking the fish if they feel the leader or the unnatural movement of the fly.

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Those stationary fish over deep water are unlikely to bite a fly. Not good prospects. They are basking. When you find them like that they just want to nap. Try earlier in the day before the surface water heats up. Try to find where they feed on the way to the basking areas. Try to feed them along the shores before they head for the sleeping areas. What you are looking for is carp head down, tail up in shallow enough areas where your fly can get to the bottom right in front of their noses.

In most cases (not when fishing the mulberry hatch), you need to minimize the splash down of your nymph. An indicator will likely just make the splash down worse, spooking feeding fish. Indicators also make it harder to get distance with your casts when you need it.

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I have yet to use this for carp, as my carp scouting this year has been frustrating, but for a indicator that will not be too obvious and spook fish:

definitely a unique innovative approach to indicator fishing that should be closer examined. thanks for sharing the article link Mat.

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I use the curly sighter for euro nymphing to trout. It's super sensitive. I've been using it for about a year now, and there is no better alternative when it comes to tight lining fish.

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Guest flygreg
I use the curly sighter for euro nymphing to trout. It's super sensitive. I've been using it for about a year now, and there is no better alternative when it comes to tight lining fish.

Have you used 6# line to make your curly sighter or have you used other weights just as effectively? I haven't tried to make any as of yet. Do you have any opinion on how it might work for carp? I was a bit concerned as most of my nymphs are weighted to a greater degree than what I feel you are talking with trout nymphs. THANKS!

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Have you used 6# line to make your curly sighter or have you used other weights just as effectively? I haven't tried to make any as of yet. Do you have any opinion on how it might work for carp? I was a bit concerned as most of my nymphs are weighted to a greater degree than what I feel you are talking with trout nymphs. THANKS!

I use 14lb golden stren, or 14lb neon tangerine suffix. With euro nymphing i sometimes use three flies, normally consisting of a size 8 or 10 heavily weighted anchor fly(tungsten bead head, wrapped in lead) a small size 12-16 point fly as the middle dropper (tungsten bead and lead with this also) and a smaller wet fly or brass bead head fly as the top dropper. On top of this, I will "degrease" my leader with snake river mud. I'm guessing this is just as weighted, or even more weight than the flies you may be using.

This technique can can call for up to a 30 foot leader. I use 15 feet of 20 pound, 8 feet of 15 pound. This is then attached to the sighter. Then from the sighter I use straight fluorocarbon down to my flies. The way I use it for nymphing is casting the huge leader out across the stream and keeping the sighter above the top of the water. The weighted flies are used to keep the fluorocarbon "tight" to the bottom of the sighter. If there is any slack from the sighter to the flies, you wont detect a hit. Normally wild trout hit the flies very softly, so all you see is a slight uncurling of the leader. That's when you set the hook.

If you are slowly drifting weighted flies to the carp, you should be able to see the takes, as long as there is no slack. You will want to cast the rig upstream of your position and raise the rod slowly as the flies are drifting back to your position, in addition to raising the rod, you will want to lead the flies with your rod tip. I use bubbles or debris on the surface to judge how fast I should be leading my flies. Longer rods are better for this technique. For trout fishing, I use a 10ft 3wt. If there is little to no movement in the water, presenting the nymphs naturally is near impossible with this technique.

If you have any more questions, let me know.

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Guest flygreg
I use 14lb golden stren, or 14lb neon tangerine suffix. With euro nymphing i sometimes use three flies, normally consisting of a size 8 or 10 heavily weighted anchor fly(tungsten bead head, wrapped in lead) a small size 12-16 point fly as the middle dropper (tungsten bead and lead with this also) and a smaller wet fly or brass bead head fly as the top dropper. On top of this, I will "degrease" my leader with snake river mud. I'm guessing this is just as weighted, or even more weight than the flies you may be using.

This technique can can call for up to a 30 foot leader. I use 15 feet of 20 pound, 8 feet of 15 pound. This is then attached to the sighter. Then from the sighter I use straight fluorocarbon down to my flies. The way I use it for nymphing is casting the huge leader out across the stream and keeping the sighter above the top of the water. The weighted flies are used to keep the fluorocarbon "tight" to the bottom of the sighter. If there is any slack from the sighter to the flies, you wont detect a hit. Normally wild trout hit the flies very softly, so all you see is a slight uncurling of the leader. That's when you set the hook.

If you are slowly drifting weighted flies to the carp, you should be able to see the takes, as long as there is no slack. You will want to cast the rig upstream of your position and raise the rod slowly as the flies are drifting back to your position, in addition to raising the rod, you will want to lead the flies with your rod tip. I use bubbles or debris on the surface to judge how fast I should be leading my flies. Longer rods are better for this technique. For trout fishing, I use a 10ft 3wt. If there is little to no movement in the water, presenting the nymphs naturally is near impossible with this technique.

If you have any more questions, let me know.

Really great stuff. I will be trying this out soon. Can you suggest any locations for reading up more on this topic? I have some situations with current that it could apply for sure, or at least give it a shot. What are your thoughts with stillwater? Will a slow retrieve distort the sighter?

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Really great stuff. I will be trying this out soon. Can you suggest any locations for reading up more on this topic? I have some situations with current that it could apply for sure, or at least give it a shot. What are your thoughts with stillwater? Will a slow retrieve distort the sighter?

It's kind of hard to find info on this stuff. You can search the french and czech websites. That is your best bet. The book czech nymph, and the vladi and jack dennis video are good places to start. The distortion from a slow hand twist like retrieve probably wont affect the ability to detect strikes much, as it's not much different then leading weighted flies through fast water. These sighters keep their shape pretty well. Go out and test it out, if you have any questions let me know. You can email me directly at chris@creekaddict.com.

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Guest flygreg
It's kind of hard to find info on this stuff. You can search the french and czech websites. That is your best bet. The book czech nymph, and the vladi and jack dennis video are good places to start. The distortion from a slow hand twist like retrieve probably wont affect the ability to detect strikes much, as it's not much different then leading weighted flies through fast water. These sighters keep their shape pretty well. Go out and test it out, if you have any questions let me know. You can email me directly at chris@creekaddict.com.

Thanks for the help. Pretty green at the fly-fishing and the forum use! Got into this fly-rod carping and I think I'm addicted. I did some seaching and found your website I believe as well and located the video at Cabela's(on sale even). THANKS AGAIN!!!!

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Thanks for the help. Pretty green at the fly-fishing and the forum use! Got into this fly-rod carping and I think I'm addicted. I did some seaching and found your website I believe as well and located the video at Cabela's(on sale even). THANKS AGAIN!!!!

creekaddict.com? That's my site.

The video is ok, and will give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

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Guest flygreg

I am going to try and stimulate a little more discussion to learn from. Now that I have had a chance to research "sighters" a bit I am seeing reference to "backing sighters" and "curly sighters". What I have read to this point has seemingly been trout fishing. Anybody using these "sighters" specifically for carp or have additional thought how they might apply? My experience is minimal, but carp being the soft takers they are, I am thinking this has real promise. Here in northern Indiana, water quality is weak when it comes to sight fishing. There are just so many(few), locations, days, and situations that allow good sight fishing. Could one blind cast with these "sighter" setups and up the odds/ would it be productive? Ultimately the number of days/ fish available could greatly increase. I know, good sight fishing is part of what makes carpin so great, but when your addicted you except a lesser grade for the thrill sometimes. THIS MIGHT JUST OPEN UP A LOT MORE WATER!!!!

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I am going to try and stimulate a little more discussion to learn from. Now that I have had a chance to research "sighters" a bit I am seeing reference to "backing sighters" and "curly sighters". What I have read to this point has seemingly been trout fishing. Anybody using these "sighters" specifically for carp or have additional thought how they might apply? My experience is minimal, but carp being the soft takers they are, I am thinking this has real promise. Here in northern Indiana, water quality is weak when it comes to sight fishing. There are just so many(few), locations, days, and situations that allow good sight fishing. Could one blind cast with these "sighter" setups and up the odds/ would it be productive? Ultimately the number of days/ fish available could greatly increase. I know, good sight fishing is part of what makes carpin so great, but when your addicted you except a lesser grade for the thrill sometimes. THIS MIGHT JUST OPEN UP A LOT MORE WATER!!!!

When I teach people this technique, I teach them with a backing sighter. The technique is the same with the two. You are just leading flies and waiting for the sighter to do something unnatural (straighten out, move, anything). The sight fishing where I'm at is great, so I haven't had a chance to use this technique with them. I do however catch a lot of suckers with this technique. I would imagine their eating habits and takes are somewhat similar. When fishing this technique I "blind cast" into an area I think would be holding fish (for tout). If you know where the carp are, at least the general area, this technique might help your hookup ratio. As long as you keep the flies tight to the sighter, you'll detect the strikes.

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Guest flygreg
When I teach people this technique, I teach them with a backing sighter. The technique is the same with the two. You are just leading flies and waiting for the sighter to do something unnatural (straighten out, move, anything). The sight fishing where I'm at is great, so I haven't had a chance to use this technique with them. I do however catch a lot of suckers with this technique. I would imagine their eating habits and takes are somewhat similar. When fishing this technique I "blind cast" into an area I think would be holding fish (for tout). If you know where the carp are, at least the general area, this technique might help your hookup ratio. As long as you keep the flies tight to the sighter, you'll detect the strikes.

Got the video in and have the book on order. Gathered supplies (had most). Sorting tackle. I have a Redington 10' 6/7 wt (used it for steelhead), that I intend to try the technique with on the carp. I noted when on your site that you use a 3wt for trout w/soft tip. How does that fit with the technique and converting over for carp? Most say you should stay at the 6/7 range for carp? It sounds like you hit suckers of a fair size with your rig. I was just wondering if I am overgunned so to speak for the technique? I know that sight is the game, but touch still is part of the issue. CreekAddict do you or anyone else have any thougts on this?

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Got the video in and have the book on order. Gathered supplies (had most). Sorting tackle. I have a Redington 10' 6/7 wt (used it for steelhead), that I intend to try the technique with on the carp. I noted when on your site that you use a 3wt for trout w/soft tip. How does that fit with the technique and converting over for carp? Most say you should stay at the 6/7 range for carp? It sounds like you hit suckers of a fair size with your rig. I was just wondering if I am overgunned so to speak for the technique? I know that sight is the game, but touch still is part of the issue. CreekAddict do you or anyone else have any thougts on this?

I can probably land a decent carp on the 3 wt. I wouldn't want to, but you can do it no problem. I think the 10' 6/7 is probably perfect. The reason the rods have the soft tip is the casting of the leader. The leaders on a long line set up can be 30 foot +, so casting them takes a bit of practice. Heavier weighted flies will make it easier as well. As long as you can fling your leader set up out there, you're golden. I just put up a video of me catching some minnows out of a brookie stream. You can probably get an idea of how to cast the rig from the video. No back casting, just lobbing and tracking. I've used the technique on a 8' 4 wt tfo before, so your rod should work just fine.

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Guest flygreg
I can probably land a decent carp on the 3 wt. I wouldn't want to, but you can do it no problem. I think the 10' 6/7 is probably perfect. The reason the rods have the soft tip is the casting of the leader. The leaders on a long line set up can be 30 foot +, so casting them takes a bit of practice. Heavier weighted flies will make it easier as well. As long as you can fling your leader set up out there, you're golden. I just put up a video of me catching some minnows out of a brookie stream. You can probably get an idea of how to cast the rig from the video. No back casting, just lobbing and tracking. I've used the technique on a 8' 4 wt tfo before, so your rod should work just fine.

How do you usually start the long leader learning process? Put together a long leader according to your formula with a backing sighter. First efforts at casting were a disaster! I shortened up a bit and was able to cast a bit. Will watch the video. THANKS for the help! Haven't put a curly sighter in place yet. Thought I would learn to cast the backing sighter first and get the feel from that. Did catch a few gills, but no carp yet. Will post results as this develops. Going to increase fly weight and maybe double up to increase load on the leader. At a In-service Training Conf. this week so evenings may allow more reading and dvd review time. (away from family) THANKS AGAIN

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