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The 2014 ATC----What's Different?


Neil Stern
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If you consider it from a "glass-half-full" perspective, I suspect that more bragging rights would go to a winning team that managed to pull enough fish from a "flyer" on Day ......plus sufficient from a Day 2 swim that had failed to produce on Day 1 when compared to any team that won the random-draws lottery and drew two "flyers"?

Iain

Ian, just how bad are you going to feel picking the red hot peg from day 1 on day 2 and then blanking ??

At least with the old system you could always fall back on the luck of the draw as an excuse :blush:

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got to love this conversation,,,,,,I will call some of the guys this week and put several issues to rest,,, ie.

1) pegging format

2) total weight of teams as winners OR big 4 or 5 ?

3) peg psoititions ( hope to have some answers from the Mayors office on permits this week)

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Thanks Neil, when the temps are in the single digits constant tapping on a keyboard helps to prevent frostbite. :rolleyes:

got to love this conversation,,,,,,I will call some of the guys this week and put several issues to rest,,, ie.

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you keep tapping Phil..... this weather has been a bear,,,,,, :) I talked with some of the guys and I think most will be happy with what we are going to do,,,

well,,,,, as happy aw CARP ANGLERS are going to get :)

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I know you already have in mind how you want to do it but have you ever considered doing an average of the two days? Say team 1 gets the hot peg and banks 120lbs of fish and then you do reverse order draw and they get a "bad" peg and get nothing they are at 120 which averages 60lbs. If a team gets an average peg and lands 160lbs on both days they average 80 and still beats the team who had the hot peg. Just a thought.

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This is an interesting thread. One of my goals before I die is to fish Town Lake (or LBL as it's called now) and capture and hold one of those beautiful big carp. But as far as peg draw is concerned (not that my opinion matters since I'm not going this year) I favor just leaving it to luck both days. As someone already said, luck is fair to all.

But for those completely against this new proposed idea, you guys seem to be making assumptions, namely:

1) A peg's production of fish will stay the same day 1 and day 2...meaning a bad peg will stay bad and a good peg will stay good. Is this true? Maybe it is in Town Lake but in big lakes I fish, the healthy nomadic carp move a lot and there's no guarantee they'll be there the next day....especially in the spring.

2) A peg's result is completely dependent on the swim. Angler's skill and strategy has very little to no effect so a bad swim in day one will stay bad and a good swim in day one will stay good, regardless who's fishing there. Maybe this is true in Town Lake? Could be. Every water is different so I can't say for sure.

But like I said I fancy the idea of leaving the peg draw to luck both days because like someone said, luck is indeed fair to all.

Regardless, I hope everyone has a good time and catches monsters!

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I am sorry to bring this back up again, but I am not one for the peg draw system where the anglers pick their peg the second day. I like the peg draw system used in 2013 with all the peg draws random. So with the system where you pick your peg the second day, then basically it becomes a one day tournament, say on the first day of the tournament you draw a good peg be random, and you fish it well too, then you are hurt the second day because the other anglers who didn't do so well, pick the good pegs from the results of day one and you are left with a peg that doesn't produce well the second day. also when you are putting fish in to count for your totals you are hurting yourself because that moves you up on the list for 1st place, and so now that allows other anglers to pick better spots than you and you are left with not such a good peg. also you could get a peg that isn't so great but you still produce from it, then on the second day you are left with a bad peg again because you fished the first day well and then both days you have a bad pegs are that could affect your totals . also with the flood and so supposedly how spots that were good aren't producing like they used to, now that gives the people who are traveling to texas a disadvantage because now we don't know what spots are good. I can see why you want the anglers to pick a good peg the second because it gives a chance to catch day but there is no need because you guys said all the pegs are capable of producing big fish. so whatever peg you get you could do well. but if we must change it and decide not to use the peg draw system used in 2013, I would rather have the big 4 or 5 then the system where the angler picks their peg the second day. I don't mean to offend anyone by this I am saying what I think. one more thing, with the random peg draw its the fairest way, it gives an advantage to no one because it is all luck, then it becomes a challenge to see how good of anglers people are, and that's what a tournament means to me, is showing your skills.

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I am sorry to bring this back up again, but I am not one for the peg draw system where the anglers pick their peg the second day. I like the peg draw system used in 2013 with all the peg draws random. So with the system where you pick your peg the second day, then basically it becomes a one day tournament, say on the first day of the tournament you draw a good peg be random, and you fish it well too, then you are hurt the second day because the other anglers who didn't do so well, pick the good pegs from the results of day one and you are left with a peg that doesn't produce well the second day. also when you are putting fish in to count for your totals you are hurting yourself because that moves you up on the list for 1st place, and so now that allows other anglers to pick better spots than you and you are left with not such a good peg. also you could get a peg that isn't so great but you still produce from it, then on the second day you are left with a bad peg again because you fished the first day well and then both days you have a bad pegs are that could affect your totals . also with the flood and so supposedly how spots that were good aren't producing like they used to, now that gives the people who are traveling to texas a disadvantage because now we don't know what spots are good. I can see why you want the anglers to pick a good peg the second because it gives a chance to catch day but there is no need because you guys said all the pegs are capable of producing big fish. so whatever peg you get you could do well. but if we must change it and decide not to use the peg draw system used in 2013, I would rather have the big 4 or 5 then the system where the angler picks their peg the second day. I don't mean to offend anyone by this I am saying what I think. one more thing, with the random peg draw its the fairest way, it give an advantage to no one because it is all luck, then it becomes a challenge to see how good of anglers people are, and that's what a tournament means to me, is showing your skills.

I like your reasoning Brrendan! And I hope you guys kick butt again this year! :yourock:

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So Brendan - explain to me how a Big 4 or 5 shows skill.

If I catch 16 fish between average 17.5lb over the two days (280lb total) why should that have less merit than catching four fish at 23lb? Did I not show more skill by catching more fish from the swim.

On a tournament that is just two 12 hour sessions I can't work the swim to get big fish into it (I can work the swim to catch the most from it though), maybe 36 hours straight I can get some bigger fish in my swim. So if there are no big fish in my two swims it becomes pure luck as to whether I get a big fish swim or not - zero skill level required. This is why 95% of all the world carp events are on total weight, yes they have big 4 awards but the champions are almost always total weight.

The reasoning behind the proposed change is to try and ensure everyone catches fish and at least make people feel they have a chance on day two, theoretically the results should be very close. I know how I felt a few years ago getting two pegs that were both very low producing pegs two days in a row, on two of those occasion my partners did not even bother fishing the second day since they came to catch carp from Town Lake (as it was back then). I recall a couple of events where complete teams opted out of the second day because they had the same swim they had failed to catch in on the first day.

Without doubt some will be upset however the draw or champions are decided.

There are some options that might help

1. Draw two and pick one (at least I can apply some watercraft to which of the two swims I pick, does give some advantage to locals who know the water).

2. Draw one for both days (the way it was the first year- this was veto'ed as some thought it unfair that a good swim was occupied by the same anglers two days in a row).

3. Stick with the previous format (and just blame luck if people don't catch).

4. Switch to the proposed format (and I do understand other peoples arguments regarding guarenteeing a bad peg on day two by doing well on day one. Also give a second day advantage to the locals who know which pegs are good).

5. Switch to Big 4 or 5 (you understand why I think this takes away any skill required to catch carp or big carp, the big carp here are not anywhere near as nomadic and thus there are certain swims where big carp do not get caught from, carp yes but not the big ones).

A couple things of note are that some of the more well known swims are not being fished this year as they are unavailable for various reasons. Because of this we have had to open up some previously used swims and add in some swims that have never been used for the ATC.

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i completely agree with him actually. and i think every angler who isn't from Texas does too. I'm pretty sure he was saying that the big 4 or 5 system is more FAIR then the new system that was brought up. not that it requires a large amount of skill. but it does in fact show skill. you have to be able to target the bigger fish within your two 12 hour sessions and that is where your saying its not fair. well, find a way to get fish in the swim as fast as you can. all fishing requires skill one way or another, but the big 4 is again more fair. i have had sessions that my first was a fish above 20 pounds. in fact my last session before it was it was too cold to fish, my first fish weighed 26 pounds 4 ounces. it is completely possible to do. and its not fair to get a guaranteed less producing swim on the second day if you get a good peg the first day. might as well just have a one day tournament if you want it that way. its great how you guys are trying to make it more fair, but i and many others think that the 2013 way of choosing pegs was a lot more fair. if it is random, then anybody could get any swim. its in the luck of the draw.

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I never specifically said that the big 4 or 5 shows skill, which it could though because you have to be able to target big fish, I said I would rather prefer it than the system where the angler picks their peg the second day, because the big 4 or 5 is still fair. The whole time I was in texas I didn't get a carp under 20lb, not even when I was pre fishing at emma long. also my first fish on day one of the tournament was my PB at 34lb. was the 34lb luck, could have been. but catching all my fish in texas and having them being bigger than 20lbs isn't all luck. it depends on the angler and their skill. the idea of having the angler pick their peg the second day is a good idea to have everyone catch, but I don't think that peg draw system should be used in this tournament. that system would be good for fish-ins.

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and its not the organizers problem for everyone to catch fish, its up to them to do everything once they get down to the swim. say you have a bad angler who gets pegged at one of the more producing swims such as 1st street but then they blank. you could put an angler anywhere but that doesn't mean they will catch. and thats where i was saying that all fishing takes skill.if it was up to me, i would say we should scrap both the big 4 AND the new "pick your peg the second day" idea and go back to the 2013 way of choosing pegs and blame on luck if people dont catch, like you said. its the most fair, and it does require skill which is exactly what you want correct? .

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plus, the anglers like me who are traveling down to Texas need the luck of the draw because we don't know which ones are good or bad since we haven't fished the lake in the past year. that is what makes the random peg draw more fair for EVERYONE. it would be a disadvantage to anyone who doesn't fish the lake regularly. we might not even know it and could be picking the wrong pegs while all the locals know that we are

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One thing I love about CARP ANGLERS they do have opinions! :)

Willem is working on something for me, so we can put this to rest and get on with the mundane task of fishing the event:

In a few days, perhaps as early as tomorrow, I will create a Ballot on the board, all will be able to see the Ballot, but ONLY team members will be allowed to vote ( Willem is working on that computer miracle for me :) )

what we will have on the ballot is most if not all of the choices/options,,,,, old format, propsed format by Keith, draw 2, pick one, etc,. And we will also go with a big 4, or a total weight option,,,,I am not fishing the event and have no dog in this race, all I want is for everyone to have a great time, catch MONSTERS , and leave Austin as happy campers,,, :)

Watch for the voting thread, but before you vote talk to you buds either on facebook, or via PM, and make your vote as an informed voter,, :)

One way or another no mater what formats we decide upon, the name of the game is to have fun :) not a money event, sure there are prizes and bragging rights, but there is also the knowledge that you spent some time in a GREAT TEXAS city, surrounded by anglers from all over the country, all doing what we love to do....

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I like the big 4 idea because not all pegs produce fish all the time.Look at the past few atc and see what pegs have produced the most fish.Why do they call the area between the ballfields and 35 the dead zone if all pegs produce?Why does everyone want the gazebo,redbud or first street? Because its known for producing fish.Where does everyone fish the day after the atc? gazebo or first street almost all the time.Big 4 evens it out for everyone.You can go down to redbud and catch 30 mid teen fish like has been done in past years. The big 4 makes it even.I know of other tourneys that do the big 4 and it works out well.In fact most of yall will be fishing the other ourney and its big 4 so whats the issue with this one being big 4?I think we should do BIg 4 and random draw.Thats the fairest way to all of this.Plus my 2 cents is that no competitor should be able to fish 2 weeks before.I firmly believe in this because me and a few more people were told that a few people were fishing it the week of.

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Thanks Rick,,,,wait for the voting thread,,,,, we can NOT control the lake,,, if anyone knows of and can validate that the lake is being fished by someone in the ATC competition the Sunday before the event, up until the event ,,,,,turn that BAD BOY in, give me solid proof, and he/she will be disqualified ......end of case,,,, :)

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