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Mario Kok

Pack versus method; not for the humor challenged

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Guest RebelCarp

No difference. The new name should be pathod so we can meet in the middle.

Now groundbait is a whole different story :)

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From what I've observed, the main difference seems to be break time. Pack users seem to like break times of 1-2 minutes. Method users don't seem to care so much about a short break time and sometimes will like break times of hours. I spent time with Ladislav Vaskor in Austin at the Texas Carp Challenge (TCC) in March 2006; his method balls, after spending a couple of hours in the water, would still be packed around the lead when he reeled in.

Actually, when I personally use pack, sometimes I'll wrap the pack around the lead if I don't want to disturb/crush/influence the pickup, or if my break times exceed 1-2 minutes. With long break times, its probably not a good idea to mold the pack around the hook.

Of course, one could debate for hours about ingredients. Personally, I think the choice of ingredients is just a detail - except that the pack users will tailor their ingredient mixes to achieve the 1-2 minute break times while the method users will be less so inclined.

One could also debate about rigs. Lots of pack users like the paylaker rigs and with the paylaker rig, I think a short break time is preferable. The method users seem to mostly use the hair rig. Personally, I have experimented around and molded pack around a hair rigged hook bait with some success.

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Pack is American and method is a British invention. And in Asia there is also a similar concept although I don't know what they call theirs. A method mix is probably more versatile in break down times (can be long or short) and generally can include more ingredients because it can include chopped boilies and all kinds of particles etc. I'm not sure if an American paylaker would even like having chopped boilies or chunks of bait in their packbait. But both can also actually overlap and be almost identical by coincidence.

For example I know that one packbait is fish chow with cream corn. The uk method mix has a similar fish meal mix with comparable breakdown times as the American fishchow packbait. But like dale said, some method mixes though can have infinite breakdown times lol.

But When I'm fishing for bigger fish I actually prefer a longer breakdown time because my rig can be sitting there for many many hours

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mario = can of worms lol

method was the UK name using primarily groundbait (but there were also versions with Vitalin dogfood as a cheaper alternative). pack is the USA term which mainly uses human food ingredients. the whole concept is pretty much the same, moulded bait, hooklink enclosed or nearby.

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Have to agree with Parksy, on this, well said. I think of method as a more fine pack, basically all I use is method, real small particles compared to pack, wich has larger whole particles in it.

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The whole idea of method (using groundbait) was for match fishing, provide cloud and attraction via the groundbait but only actual food particle is the hookbait, that equals quicker bites. Adding things like hemp, corn , pellet is more of a pleasure angling tactic. I dont know any top matchmen that add anything to their method except maybe a few maggots/pinkies to increase breakdown. Most method using match anglers will recast every 30-120 seconds regardless of a take.

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Guest THE BIG WORM

I don't really see anyone taking the bait here and getting dragged into the same endless battle....

Not really sure why the post is in the Pictures and Stories section.......

Kind of confused as to the motivation behind making a post sure to cause trouble .....especially by someone who has expoused the need to reduce conflicts on the forum.....

But hey, If you want to stir up stuff to get people to the site......you gotta scrape the bottom of the pot..... :bigsmile:

Besides, Everyone knows that PVA is the best single application presentation out there.......

(LOL

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Nightcrawlers are best, but you have to know how to hook them.

GUS

Tom.

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^^^^ this guy!!

:offtopicicon:

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Report him :D

:Old:

:blabla:

:Banana:

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I sat here looking at that little flashing bar in the upper left corner of the box for a long time before tapping on the keys. We can argue all day about Mario's post but the fact is on this forum discussions on pack baits have really caused the users of the method to really think about what they were doing. I never saw a discussion on break time for method until challenged by pack bait. I never saw discussions on seasonal changes on method until challenged by pack bait . I never saw discussions on the benefits of having air bubble from your method until pack baits challenged them . I am sure there are other examples as well . So it seems to me that the first difference is that pack baits lead and the method follows.

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I sat here looking at that little flashing bar in the upper left corner of the box for a long time before tapping on the keys. We can argue all day about Mario's post but the fact is on this forum discussions on pack baits have really caused the users of the method to really think about what they were doing. I never saw a discussion on break time for method until challenged by pack bait. I never saw discussions on seasonal changes on method until challenged by pack bait . I never saw discussions on the benefits of having air bubble from your method until pack baits challenged them . I am sure there are other examples as well . So it seems to me that the first difference is that pack baits lead and the method follows.

To a certain extent u are correct because on a personal level packbaits did make me think twice about breakdown times and I'm sure that's true for many American angler as well. But the truth of the matter is that despite what novices are doing like putting flour in their mixes and calling them packbait or method mix doesn't change the fact that both pack and method have always considered breakdown times to be an important variable. Speak to or read any serious UK match angler who uses method and they'll tell u.

I learned the method mix from the old 2005 ACS DVD and even then David Moore and Wayne boon talks about breakdown time and shows footage of it breaking down.

I have heard it often where people say they've seen method users being completely ignorant about breakdown times but to be fair that's not a representation of method mixes. Its just a representation of either a novice or an angler that just doesn't care or ignorant.

Both pack and method mixes arrived at the need for groundmixes to breakdown independently. Believe me the British know about attractants needing to be soluble and groundmixes to disperse in the water column.

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I will take the bait on this one. lmao

Groundbait = complete breakdown and leaves virtually nothing for the carp to eat. You are left with scent and cloud

Packbait = Quick breakdown in under 2 minutes usually. The average packbait is not many ingredients and simple in comparison to method. Pack is usually a grain, wetter/binder and flavor sometimes more but the average pack is few ingredients.

Method= To me this was always a more smorgasbord of ingredients. The break is slow and is meant to hold fish over a long time due to the slow break. Often times you will find multiple ingredients and more items that can be eaten after the break such as many forms of particles. It is almost like combining groundbait and pack together and you get the clouding effect/smell of groundbait but have the particles/grains like a packbait. Just my thoughts.

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I will take the bait on this one. lmao

Groundbait = complete breakdown and leaves virtually nothing for the carp to eat. You are left with scent and cloud

Packbait = Quick breakdown in under 2 minutes usually. The average packbait is not many ingredients and simple in comparison to method. Pack is usually a grain, wetter/binder and flavor sometimes more but the average pack is few ingredients.

Method= To me this was always a more smorgasbord of ingredients. The break is slow and is meant to hold fish over a long time due to the slow break. Often times you will find multiple ingredients and more items that can be eaten after the break such as many forms of particles. It is almost like combining groundbait and pack together and you get the clouding effect/smell of groundbait but have the particles/grains like a packbait. Just my thoughts.

Hmmmm, what about that bait ya came up with last year, pokebait---------where does that fall in your comparison? :rolleyes:

With all the mention of break times in this debait, maybe we should just call these baits what they actually are......................................breakbait.

Nah, that would make to much sense...........

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Its just a method of packing bait around your hook, don't know why people have to argue the finer points of it and what hammer said are good points.

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To each their own but to me method is groundbait and pack is oats, panko, grits, etc.

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