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I just read Mike Kavanaugh's article on the multi-rig and am intrigued with the idea of tying the hair to the eye of the hook instead of having the hair come off the hook at the bend.  Something I have never tried.  He says it is very effective.

If anyone here has tried this rig I would be interested to hear of your results, and if you think it more effective than a traditionally tied hair in certain situations.

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I don't have any hard fact, but call me a tad skeptical about the hair attached to the eye. Irrespective of the dynamics within the carp mouth (which NOBODY has seen for real, even with underwater videos), this seems to be begging for tangles. What many people don't realize is that carp forage the bottom with their pectoral fins, sending everything flying around under water, rigs included. If there is a non-negligible probability that my rig will get tangled in the process, then that's a bad rig. But then maybe with stiff enough material, this isn't the case?

As to Warwyck's anchor idea, I applaud the creativity, but... again, nobody knows what's really happening in a carp mouth. Does this help? Or not? Or doesn't matter? I suspect this is very hard to determine. Those guys in the UK catching a couple of fish a day at most have absolutely no way to run any statistically significant test... What bugs me is that the 'anchor bar' adds one more thing which might tickle the carp mouth enough, so that they might spit it out faster than said...

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3 hours ago, Ken said:

I just read Mike Kavanaugh's article on the multi-rig and am intrigued with the idea of tying the hair to the eye of the hook instead of having the hair come off the hook at the bend.  Something I have never tried.  He says it is very effective.

If anyone here has tried this rig I would be interested to hear of your results, and if you think it more effective than a traditionally tied hair in certain situations.

The key to this idea was that when the carp ejected or spat out the bait (as it tries to do when it feels the hook) the bait 'pendulums' on the hair so that it ends up pulling against the hook eye and therefore pulling the hook point into the carps lip.

The original hair rig had the hair attached to the middle of the hook bend with the concern that it could potentially pull out the hook point. If you look at many current rig designs the bait & hair (if there is one) can slide along the hook shank (on a ring or a loop) towards the hook eye.

Take a look at 'Blow Back' rigs, D-Rigs, KD-Rigs, Ronnie Rigs etc, etc and you'll see they pretty much follow this principle. Even on rigs where the hair is trapped by a piece of silicone or shrink tubing along the shank near the bend are designed so the bait will pull the hair and the tubing back towards the eye. 

I've caught hundreds of carp on this simple rig both here and overseas.  

P9120149.JPG

And also this one - where the hair is held along the shank with shrink tube. It is amazing with how much force a carp can eject a bait. The shrink tube always end up by the eye!

FW Rig003.JPG

 

Edited by (CT) Savayman
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3 hours ago, (CT) Savayman said:

The key to this idea was that when the carp ejected or spat out the bait (as it tries to do when it feels the hook) the bait 'pendulums' on the hair so that it ends up pulling against the hook eye and therefore pulling the hook point into the carps lip.

To be honest, I don't believe much in this theory. When a carp spits out, it spits with such force that the entire rig go flying in a random manner. The idea that the bait moves and the hook stays straight behind seems ludicrous to me. Or at least this is I *think* I observed from underwater videos. 

All those rig variations undoubtedly work at one point or another, in the midst of tens of suck & spit. But it is much more a random outcome than rig designers believe. Or at least, this is my perception...

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11 hours ago, Jerome said:

To be honest, I don't believe much in this theory. When a carp spits out, it spits with such force that the entire rig go flying in a random manner. The idea that the bait moves and the hook stays straight behind seems ludicrous to me. Or at least this is I *think* I observed from underwater videos. 

All those rig variations undoubtedly work at one point or another, in the midst of tens of suck & spit. But it is much more a random outcome than rig designers believe. Or at least, this is my perception...

I'm in no doubt about the effectiveness of a well designed hook rig (which includes many factors such as lead weight, fishing boilies or particles etc).
 

The limited hook ups with baited hooks vs early hair rigs vs more efficient modern rigs suggests that much of the randomness has been eliminated through better rig mechanics.
 

I'm certainly not in favor of complicated rigs and only use two or three for 90% of my fishing. 

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Oh, don't misread me, I totally agree with your first sentence. 

Randomness definitely stays in full force though. But we can improve odds. Instead of 100 to 1, we can get to 10 to 1. Maybe. And that's a heck of an improvement. But let's not fool ourselves, there is very little determinism here.

I was expressing deep skepticism about blowback rigs and correspond theories people make in their mind without any solid backing behind it (and then it becomes conventional wisdom through endless regurgitating, confirmation bias and so on). When seeing on video how powerfully carp spit out things, it is really hard to give any credibility to such theories any more... I think blowback rigs work fine when they act like regular rigs, when the hook link tightens up, simple as that. Correlation isn't causation...

But yes, simple and effective rig mechanics can indeed go a long way to improve things.

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Yeah, a good rig can drastically increase the odds of a hook-up , especially over a highly used rig. Many years ago (think late 1980's). I fished a fairly large water (by UK standards), at the time we did quite a lot of rig experimentation. One rig which stood out at the time was one we called the "Spring", basically we used spade end hooks L'ion Dor 1534 , which were a beak pointed hook . I think Kevin Maddocks mentioned them in his book carp fever. We then bent the hair tail at 90* to the shank of the hook, straight off the spade........ line was 10lbs berkely Sylcast or Maxima chameleon I believe. It was fairly stiff line & we fished short rigs 4-6" with running 2-3 oz leads, then we tightly clipped the line with gardener line clips. You could play a tune on the line it was that tight. Reels were fished open bail & the runs were explosive, absolute one toners. this rig was good for a few seasons & then fish just started dropping off & eventually could not hook anything, it was like a desert! About that time we changed hooklink material & a material called Kryston multistrand came on the market. This stuff was strong & incredibly limp, problem it had was strand seperation. Anyhow long story short we changed rigs & the runs came back! So it is worth paying attention to the rig mechanics for sure, especially if your getting bleeps & other twitches without runs.

ATB Carpsava

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8 hours ago, Carpsava said:

 So it is worth paying attention to the rig mechanics for sure, especially if your getting bleeps & other twitches without runs.

ATB Carpsava

Getting a lot of short hits that go nowhere has always been a chronic problem with me.  I started experimenting with circle-sea hooks last fall and seemed to be connecting better, but then the fall shut down happened and I didn't come up with anything conclusive.  I never like circle hooks before,  but the circle-sea hooks (straight shank) appeared to be working,  I'll try them for a while now and see what happens.

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14 hours ago, Ken said:

Getting a lot of short hits that go nowhere has always been a chronic problem with me.  I started experimenting with circle-sea hooks last fall and seemed to be connecting better, but then the fall shut down happened and I didn't come up with anything conclusive.  I never like circle hooks before,  but the circle-sea hooks (straight shank) appeared to be working,  I'll try them for a while now and see what happens.

What are you using for bait, lead set up etc? 

For method this is my favorite set up... 2.5 - 3.0oz in line lead, short 3-4" hook link and the hair coming off the eye under a shrink tube 'kicker' so the bait is almost touching the bend of the hook (size 6). I very rarely drop a fish and they are all hooked in the bottom lip.

InLine Oats SF Wafter.jpg

In Line Lead Method Rigs.jpg

Wafter Method.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, (CT) Savayman said:

What are you using for bait, lead set up etc? 

For method this is my favorite set up... 2.5 - 3.0oz in line lead, short 3-4" hook link and the hair coming off the eye under a shrink tube 'kicker' so the bait is almost touching the bend of the hook (size 6). I very rarely drop a fish and they are all hooked in the bottom lip.

 

Generally I use bread or corn, or a combination of both.  I use a running lead of whatever weight it takes to hold bottom, using the rig you have pictured.  In most cases not over 2 oz.  My hook links are longer than what you suggest, starting around 6" and up.  I use larger hooks too.  I like #4's, and use #2's when the situation calls for one.

Tonight I will be tying 3" hook links at the kitchen table with #6's.

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Remember you can adjust the rig lenght on the bank.  Also lead size can have a substantial impact on the rigs hook up rate. Sizes 4 & 6  are usually pretty close to what works, but dont be afraid to experiment. I'll say this.....it does not take much to render a good rig ineffective, be meticulous when you find what works there is often not much difference between what works & what does not!!

Having said that successful carp fishing relies principally on 3 factors. IMHO in this order.  You cant catch a carp if there are none in the area , or if it ignores your bait, but In the days of Isaak Walton, they used crude presentation (rigs) but still caught fish!!!!!

1) Location   2) Bait   3) Rig or presentation

 

ATB Carpsava

 

 

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6 hours ago, Ken said:

Generally I use bread or corn, or a combination of both.  I use a running lead of whatever weight it takes to hold bottom, using the rig you have pictured.  In most cases not over 2 oz.  My hook links are longer than what you suggest, starting around 6" and up.  I use larger hooks too.  I like #4's, and use #2's when the situation calls for one.

Tonight I will be tying 3" hook links at the kitchen table with #6's.

Ken, Iain was referring to a fixed rig as opposed to a running rig. If you use a running rig, then the hooklink length may not matter as much. But in most situations, a fixed rig is more effective by making the fish hook itself as soon as the hooklink tightens. And then yes, a fairly short hooklink seems to definitely improve success rates, something I've seen clearly on underwater videos as well as in comparative tests. At least in venues without a lot of fishing pressure, but that's the case in 99.9% of the venues in North America. In the UK, it's another story...

Let me suggest you give it a good try with fixed rigs. This might make quite a big difference.

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8 hours ago, Jerome said:

..

Let me suggest you give it a good try with fixed rigs. This might make quite a big difference.

Thanks for that.  I will give that a shot, hopefully this afternoon.

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On 4/6/2021 at 7:55 AM, Ken said:

Thanks for that.  I will give that a shot, hopefully this afternoon.

When Jerome says a 'fixed' rig it does not mean that the lead is permanently attached to the line. The lead I've shown is an inline lead with a rubber insert. The swivel attached between the leader / main line and the hook link braid is designed to pull out of the rubber insert so in the event of the mainline breaking the fish is not dragging a lead weight around.

If you need help in clarifying let me know.

If you are using 'running' lead it can still help to have a heavier lead 3-4oz and a tightish line back to the rod. Adjust the bait runner or reel clutch so that when a fish takes there is some resistance which will help in setting the hook... but not so much it pulls the rod in ;)

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