Savayman
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Posts posted by Savayman
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I know this is a little off topic but heres an example about lower test curve rods, my first ever pair of carp rods were 1-3/4 TC 11ft Jack Hiltons this was round about 1975. Whilst it sounds very low compared to todays wopper stoppers they were designed primarily to be able to freeline light baits as far as possible the top 2/3rds was pretty whipy and the bottom 1/3 was stout enough to hold it solid against a fish in snaggy water at close range. Places like Ashlea pool were where they were designed for, a small and very snaggy water, no i didn't fish there LOL. I did use them extensivly well into the 80's and i had complete confidence in them, the softer tip gave them a low TC and would cushion the lunges very well but the lower section was easy enough the equivalent in feel to a fairly standard rod of around 3LB TC and you could really hang on. O' and i should add that they are fiberglass too.
This is to give another angle on what to think about when looking at test curves, the lower number is not necessarily an indicator of a "flop pole" it also is another case of 'need to feel it before you buy it'
I also have a set of 1-3/4 11' carp rods built on Fibatube glass blanks and I can easily apply MORE pressure on a fish with them than most 3lb+ test curves carp rods. The reason being that the blank bends deep in into the butt section and not only results in far less leverage on your arms than a typical fast taper rod but allows much more shock absorption to protect against line breakage and hook pulls.
If you don't believe me then take a set of scales and test it for yourself... and while your at it also check the effect of different rod angles when playing fish. Its also a great way to 'dial=in' the drag on your reels so they all behave consistently.
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I am no expert i am just tryugn to help you out but i beleive a 2.75 Saxon would be good for float fishing but deff not method!
The 2.50 and 2.75 Saxon's can easily cast method balls... even 4 - 6oz up to 60yds.
The reality is that they won't cast quite as far as a higher test curve rod such as the 3.50
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Ian, I wasn't going to say anything but now I've changed my mind
and I do want to add this one thing though. However, I may delete it later if you feel that what I'm about to say is negative towards the saxon rods somehow (because I understand how you have a personal interest in what people say about these rods). But just for the record, I didn't say anything negative about your rods....just gave my honest opinion with my likes and dislikes (and it was a thumbs up from me 
). And I believe that it was Mick and my posts that convinced Captain Carpy to get the rods.But anyways, here's what I wanted to say. In my previous post, I said I was going to strip the blank and re-ring the rods but I said it wasn't worth it. The reason is that it's a waste to re-ring the rods on the saxon blanks because these blanks aren't made for distance casting as you know. So I would probably agree with your test results showing a gain of only 3-5 yards with alternative ringing options.
However, on distance casting blanks like my His 200's, where you can apply a lot more force and hence resulting in greater velocity (via off the ground casting for example), adding an extra ring will reduce the casting distance by more than 3-5 yards. The reason is simple physics. As you know, adding an extra ring increases friciton. And I'm pretty sure that frictional force is proportional to either the square or cube of the velocity (don't feel like looking this up) but I can probably model it mathematically if I got paid for it
. So in other words, the more force one exerts, the greater the effect that the added ring will have. But one cannot add all this force (off the ground cast) to the Saxon blanks because it'll fail (rupture) so that's why I decided not to re-ring it because it's pointless on these blanks.Anyways, that's why I didn't like the ringing of the 3.5 Saxon rod but as I've stated, different ringing wouldn't have made any difference in the distance because we can't apply the force one would require in order to see effect of the added ring. There are a few other things I would change if I built the rod to my liking but I'm not going to mention those because it's irrelevant for the most part (unless people are super picky like me
).Overall, you did a great job of making a quality rod at an affordable price.
I certainly didn't think you said anything negative... well other than lopping its ball off! Ha, ha.
There is a lot of misunderstanding regarding friction and casting. Once the rod has straightened out (another subject entirely!) the line pretty much flows down the center of the rings - right?
On a fixed spool reel the line comes off in coils and the bigger the coils the more (forward toward the rod tip) air resistance and slap (friction) against the blank these coils create. So the trick is to eliminate these coils by reducing them through smaller & smaller rod rings until the line is basically a straight line. Then you have minimum friction during casting. Fuji did some experiments years ago for tournament casting and this reduction in line coil size was one of the most critical elements to achieving distance. They showed that a gradual taper in ring diameter as found in most rods is actually less effective than a couple of 'choke' rings that reduce the line coils very quickly and then a series of smaller but similar sized rings to the tip. However the rods looked pretty weird so everyone went with the current trend.
Now onto tip bounce... bigger rings weigh more than smaller rings and therefore have more momentum which means that the rod tip will take more time to settle into a straight line again. Tip bounce simply kills distance casting and going back to Fuji's experiments we would ideally have 3 or 4 small rings to minimize weight towards the tip and a couple of reducing rings to 'choke' the line coils ASAP.
Not sure I understand the point you are trying to make regarding the difference in forces applied to a Hi-S vs a Saxon during casting and why one would fail? Try picking something like a 2lb weight with the Saxon and then try (if you dare or can) with the Hi-S...
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I completely understand... i meant like 100 plus yds... nothing over 150 if up to 150 at all. I realize thats a long distance... and very hard to get to that point and accurately fish. But when im seein fish out far (100-125yds) i would love to get a hoook bait out there. I would run a 3 0z + distance lead with a very small stick mix and hopefully be able to acheive my goal EVENUTUALLY! I by know means think that im gona buy a certain rod and magically be casting 200 yds... I know its not posisble... And i just want to be able to get into the 100 yd mark and possibly little bit more with a little pracitce... Thats all i need. What is feathering when you cast?
100 - 120 yds is certainly very achievable and I think you have the right rig set-up in mind!
'Feathering the cast' is when you use your finger tip to slow the line coming off the spool toward the end of the cast. This can be done to prevent casting too far, reducing the impact of the lead & bait hitting the water and if using a lead clip to ensure lead does not come free when the lead hits the water.
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Just to answer some of the questions posted on ring sizes and positions with the Saxon rods...
When we tested prototype rods (which used the same blanks as current production models) we tried a variety of ring sizes (including 50mm butt and larger tip ring) together with 5 vs the current 6 ring + tip options.
After lots & lots of casting the difference in overall distance achieved with all the different permutations (reels, ring size, number, leads vs method etc etc) was no more than 3 - 5 yards.
If you really want to make a difference in casting distance on ANY rod go with a shock leader and lighter mainline 8-10lb max!
The key decision for ring size and position came down to rod action when playing fish (which we deemed as critical for the especially hard fighting North American and wilder fish in certain European waters) and more importantly reducing line friction over the rings when the rod is bent over so that it minimizes any risk of hook pulls.
As for casting distance then there are plenty of super stiff casting 'sticks' that claim all sorts of distances. In reality very few folk can achieve the distances claimed (especially over 150 yds) and anything under $500 - $600 is probably a waste of money. There is then the whole issue of accurately baiting up and hitting the target with hook baits...
The Saxon blanks are a 1K weave which is much, much stronger and more durable than cheaper 3K blanks. They were chosen for their ability to play lots and lots of fish over the years and repeatedly cast heavy method balls if necessary without the blank softening. As for casting distance then short to medium is where they really excel but they were never intended for extreme ranges. That said we have several top Euro anglers fishing at extreme ranges including 250 yds + with the Saxon rods... rowing the baits out or using a bait boat to ensure accuracy!
If anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer them.
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A somewhat younger Lenny fishing Savay in 1981... (taken by Mike Wilson)
Lenny kindly showed us the hair rig in early 1980 and it proved devastating from the outset!
And some much earlier hair rigs...
1930's big game rig
Sturgeon 'pop-up' rigs from the 1800's
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A lot of guys in the UK use maggots in their chum mix for carp - works a treat. The trick is to freeze them first so they 'die' and don't burrow into the bottom. You can them fish live ones on the hook or a maggot clip or almost any regular carp bait or boilie.
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You even made the International Carper section of the July 2012 Carpworld magazine - Well done again!
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"Two things anyone can use - Effort, Energy & Eyes..." Ha, ha Good old Nashy!
Just wish he had a more interesting voice... half the audience were nodding off.
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Thank-you Mike!
I still have the signed copy from all those years ago fishing in Chicago.
Its about time you came out to CT and fished with Nigel and myself!
Cheers, Iain
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Rob Maylin was just over from the UK as a guest of Ontario Tourism to help promote the carp fishing...
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Same here... seems fine now.
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If you are dropping leads on casting then make sure you 'feather' the cast as its about to hit the water. That way the lead will stay forward on the bend of the clip rather than push the rubber off when it hits the water.
That said I only use safety clips or drop the lead when fishing dense weeds, snags or when I want to get the fish up on the surface ASAP to avoid zebras etc. All my rigs are designed to 'lose' the lead if I break the line.
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Thanks Willem... I know the DEEP in CT have been fascinated by the number of folk following the new CT carp record story on facebook.
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Please take a moment to look and "like" the new CT Fish & Wildlife facebook page... www.facebook.com/CTFishandWildlife.
Check out the story on the new CT Carp record and commend CT Fisheries for their forward thinking that made documenting the record and the safe release possible.
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yes I am using two northwestern kevlite rod for most of my fishing and I agree they are of better quality. But I still think for the price the black widows cant be beat if they last. A few years you got your monies worth
Certainly explains it! Those kevlite blanks would equate to a $400 - $600 rod today...
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Disagree all you want, the Black Widows (AKA Mad Dragon) are very soft action (and cheap blank) rods and YES it takes a certain "technique" to casting such soft rods (I also own 2.25 and 2.50TC rods). I much prefer fast action rods and they also must have a certain casting technique to cast method feeders 100+ yards that those soft rods will never reach no mater how you cast them..lol. Those soft action carp rods are made to fish close range with lighter weights, they are by no means casting machines.
Just like the old Cabelas Predator 2.25TC rods that many guys on here used for years, I personally would never cast a 2 oz. method feeder (possibly 6-8 oz. when packed depending on your method mix) on any cheaply made low Test Curve rated rod, but again I have only been in the carpin game 10+ years, so what do I know ?
Alex your are absolutely correct... The only way to make low price rods is to minimize on the carbon weave and fill in the gaps with more resin - its (well almost) as simple as that!
There are NO rods selling for under $150 (and more in some cases) that have blanks capable of sustained and repeated casting (or playing of lots of fish) of such heavy weights. If they don't break then the blank will soften up within a couple of seasons.
In most cases carp rods in the USA see 10 years of 'UK' type carp action in only one or two seasons.
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well I can assure you I can cast 100 yards with my 2.5 tc rods using a method ball.
I do not own a Black Dragon rod but I have cast one a few times and we have several members on here that are using this rod with out any issues
$300 per rod is not an option for some and many do not see that as a bargain.
A method ball weighing how much????
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There are some big Carp around Sydney, I don't want to give away too much on a public forum but let me know next time you are coming out and I will try to give you some information. The ponds in Centennial Park in Sydney have produced Carp to 24kg (53lb). Fishing is not allowed unless you register and fish in their fishing program, you have to register in advance, I believe they do tuesday afternoons. They have fairly restrictive rules, but it's still a good day out. Probably a great idea being a tourist with limited gear and time. At the very least take a few loaves of bread and some polarized glasses and go have a look, some really big ones in there and it's only a short walk from the city.I live about 3 hours away from Sydney, but I've done a few days there with the guy who manages the fishing program, here is one of the better fish I had out of there.
You would have to travel further out of Sydney for Cod as they aren't found around Sydney, they're mostly in the western flowing rivers and dams over the dividing range. Australian Bass are found in the coastal systems near Sydney though, they are the most popular freshwater fish in Sydney. This isn't a large one, but you get the idea. I think any of your Largemouth Bass tactics would probably work, perhaps scaled down a little.
Cheers
Steve
Steve, Thanks for the feedback. I'm probably coming down again in November so will be sure to check out Centennial Park. If I have more time it would be great to get out of the city and explore some more fishing opportunities. Cheers, Iain
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Good to see some nice carp coming from 'down under'!
I travel to Sydney once or twice a year and mostly take advantage of chasing saltwater species on the fly in the harbor. Looks like next time I'll have to try some Aussie carp fishing and adding a Murray cod to the species list would be very cool as well.
Thanks for sharing those pics and keep us updated!
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Which ever rig or hook you decide on I believe the key is how the rig 'sits' in the water...
The hook should be held up by the bait so the point is at a 45 degree angle. This will ensure that the hook point is more likely to 'catch' no matter which direction the fish approaches the bait. (When the fish sucks up the bait the soft link or exposed braid will allow it to swivel around).
This is a rather poor photo of a multi-rig (Korda Kurv hook) but hopefully you get the idea of the hook point angle.
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Just got a text from Mike Hudak to say his 43.12lb carp has been officially accepted as the new Connecticut state record!
Well done Mike on a monumental catch and the CT Fisheries department for their forward thinking on record claims.
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Nothing more stylish than a man in a drivers cap
Congrats on the fish !!!!I'll refrain from revealing how it was described by those good 'ol southern boys....
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Here are some follow up photos...
I followed some of the accepted wisdom with longer leaders, smaller hooks etc but ended up with a couple of fish 'blowing' bait and hook out through their gills. I might have missed a few more runs (would certainly have hooked more if I'd sat over the rods and hit more of the tap, tap, taps that barely moved the hanger) as a result but my regular carp multi-rig with a #6 hook, 12mm pop-up and a piece of imitation corn certainly produced nice solid hook ups just inside the mouth.
After losing a few rigs to the zebra mussels we added 30ft of 30lb shock leader together with a sliding float / bobber that after casting slid up the leader and stopped at the connection to the main line. No more cut-offs - Result!
Very few carp appeared in the swim and those we caught were under 10lb... Here's David with the only mirror.
As most of my sessions back on the east coast are only a few hours I was a little concerned about enduring a couple of nights in a Bivvy... I need not have worried as David rolled out the latest in luxury bank side accommodation complete with shower, AC, fridge, awning etc etc.
Wanting To Get A New Carp Rod Need Some Opinons On St.croix
in Beginning Carping
Posted
Couple of interesting points have surfaced over the recent posts... here is my reaction.
Rods breaking... First off stuff happens (the blank gets knocked, workmanship issues etc, etc). However the faster the rod taper the more risk of a breakage compared with a through action rod - in a fast action rod the loads can build up very quickly over a small area while in a through action rod the loads are spread over a bigger bend in the rod. That's why you should always be very careful when overloading a fast action rod with heavy casting weights and playing fish (e.g. don't keep the rod near vertical when the fish is over the net etc).
Casting heavy weights... Cheaper rods use a less dense weave with more resin which not only makes them heavier but more prone to softening with repeated casting of heavy weights. High density weaves (a bit like cotton thread count) are more expensive but use less resin and will withstand much more repeated flexing and over loading than the cheaper rod blanks.