Mario Kok
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Posts posted by Mario Kok
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Hammer, tell me you weren't the one fishing with PVA string as hooklink either. Now that was a great story too.
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Here's a little anecdote from Lioness. I think it was summer 2008. First ever session there to celebrate the start of CAG Mexico. The entire BOD was there, I think we were maybe 7 guys fishing next to each other, in total about 20 lines in the water. Of course we didn't know the lake at all and set up in a spot more focused on camping comfortably than maximizing fishing results.
I don't remember how many different baits went in during that trip. Boillies, particles and god knows what else. Sal, who unfortunately ended up sitting right in the middle of all those lines, was fishing an Asian pack right in the margins. Guess who caught the only fish from that spot.
There's a place and time for everything. Sal never ever caught another fish from Lioness again.
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Ok guys, time to get back on track with this thread.
- Don't show disrespect to other fishing styles. To each his own.
- Keep it friendly.
- As Andy said, don't be a D*CK.
Pretty simple really. There's some really good stuff in this tread. Let's keep it fun.
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No, I meant that. No need to be paranoid. It's all good brother.
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Yes, nothing wrong with it. Stop being paranoid. Nobody's out there to get you.
The few verbal paylakers and paylaker wannabees on this forum are paylaking's worst enemy. You all make paylakers look and sound like the most close-minded bunch of fishing muppets on the planet. It's a shame really for all the other paylakers out there, especially those that once used to visit this forum.
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Let the cows decide for themselves in May....
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I have a little experiment in mind for next May in the US. Consistent competition winning "pack bait" will be fished next to one of my favorite boilies. First three days in a spot without pre-baiting. I have no doubt the pack will win total weight. Not so sure about biggest fish though. But we'll see.
Meanwhile I will pre-bait another spot with my boilies only. Again, three days in the new spot, pack next to boilie. Now I'm pretty sure the tables will turn radically. The boilie will win both total weight and big fish.
If that pack is so great (been asked not to give details but I repeat, many competitions have been won with it), it should easily outfish my boilies, even on a prebaited spot. Or not? Anyone want to place some bets?
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I think Tom would agree this thread needs more:
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Forkhorn,
Tom once used a boilie as pickup when abroad and low and behold, he caught a carp so big his buddy had to hold it for him. True story.
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Craig, interesting point. Haven't been there in a while but I have seen this as well on Lioness for example. Over the years this lake has been fished by some 10 guys on occasional basis, including myself. One of the biggest mirrors there has an absolute preference for boilies and I have caught that fish 4 times already. No one else has caught her yet.
Now there is also a significant school of teens to mid twenties in the lake. They never ever get caught!!! You can see them during spawn, but they just don't come out. We tried packbaits (yes, around the pickup as well), method, floatrod, boilies, the works. Fishing with worms is near impossible because of the ciclids. Those mid size fish just don't get caught except, ON THE FLYROD. Luis has caught several of them.
They are so focused on feeding on small bugs like waterboatman that they completely refuse everything else. Of course Hammer and Tom haven't fished there yet so that would probably change everything. Plenty of examples from Europe as well. Very interesting stuff.
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I ran across a color test for carp somewhere. Cant remember the details but if memory serves it was all the same bait just colored differently.
I did write down the results of this color test down in my carp notes notebook.
The baits were eaten in this order of color
Blue
Yellow
Black
Green
But not in Red
Those muppets must have done the test in the dark. Or 60ft deep.
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Hammer, the consistent manner in which you keep talking down on Euro style angling truly does justice to your forum name. But hey, cramp your own style, fine by me. I don't remember who said it but " Paylake Wannabee" had me giggling...
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My apologies to you and to phonebush. I was sure I read in his white paper that one of the ingredients in his ideal bait was a 1/4 of an alka-seltzer tablet. I really did try it and so have others.
In all honestly, he said that too. If I'm not mistaken to be used in combination with a metal spring, a dash of beer yeast (actually not a bad score in the test) and a real fish eye to finish it of. There you go, the most infallible all American pick up.
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It was Alka Seltzer not Tums.
And yes I have tried baking soda in a pack. You have to move very fast to get it out there before it erupts. If I wanted to give it a real test I would use it in millet pack or that forever grits pack. The heavy corn syrup would slow down the reaction until the water got to it. Ha, from the legend himself: "A side bar, I use as the “best” secret ingredient. Don’t tell anyone. Antacids like Tums and Rolaids (peppermint for fun) really turn on the little electric receptors in the fourth sensory system in carp."
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Nice. Now imagine something imitating the sound of cracking crawdad shells...
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I have a question about colour. Was the test done in sunlight , that is natural light or under fluorescent or incandescent light. How did the test compensate for the depth of water being fished. If the person conducting the experiment did not account for this then I doubt the results are valid.
Now now, let's just wait for the NACA to come in shall we?
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That's what I'm saying. Don't add something just because Phone said in the Whitepaper it would make it better. Do you also add Tums to your pickup?
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That your puff is already loaded with natural attractors. I'm trying to protect you from yourself. Don't make it worse!
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Only if you know what to throw Tom. In some cases it might be quite the opposite.
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Did I mention SOUND already?
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Brookesy,
Sure, a tank test is always limited. And it's always possible to discredit any test based on such limitations. No discussion there. But, some of the most critical bias errors where avoided and the test were well done.
I'm careful to draw hard conclusions from tank test, but I think there are a couple of real eye openers that came out of it. Color being one of them.
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Well, what can I say about Pone's Whitepaper.
Here you go. http://www.carpanglersgroup.com/forum/index.php?/topic/37507-white-paper-nov-2009/
Another wonderful winter read. Phone, where-ever you are my friend, I sure enjoyed our chat in Austin.
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Let's ask you guys this then:
You have let's say 20 attractors to choose from. Let's say 5 show very very positive results during testing, most have some average effect and many also do absolutely nothing. Which ones would you choose from?
Let's just say it's very hard to find anything better than natural proteins or carbohydrates.
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I didn't say salt doesn't work. ROCKSALT was tested as a stand alone attractor and the reaction was completely negative.
Salt as an additive to other ingredients might be a completely different story. I definitely think taste enhancers have their place in bait. Salt might be just that. We have a looooooooot to learn and far too little reliable research is available. Perhaps kind of the charm of fishing, now isn't it?
Pack versus method; not for the humor challenged
in Pictures, Stories & Video
Posted
Let's get back to basics. Some really good info from Tom right here:
Grits Pack, Early spring/late Fall/Big Buff Bait too
Grits.
Probably the most simple packbait to make.
18oz instant Grits (Quaker).
9oz quick Grits (Quaker).
2 table spoons of Koser salt.
14 ¾ oz Cream style corn ( Green giant ).
Dry mix in a bucket with a lid. Pour half the can of corn into the mix, add your flavoring of choice to the remaining half can of corn and stirr and pour into the mix, Mix well with hands and start fishing. Leave the lid on when not using and it will last for at least 8hrs. If left overnight it will dry out and to my knowledge, there is nothing that can be done to bring it back, ( chunk it ).
This is my personal packbait of choice for the Big Buffs.
GUS and good luck.
Tom.
early Fall/late Spring Oat Pack bait
3lbs steam rolled oats
1 can cream style corn
2 cap fulls of your favorit R&W flavoring, or 1 and ½ inches out of the bottle of Superior flavoring.
1 table spoon of Kosher Salt.
or
3 lbs of Steamed Rolled Oats.
1 table spoon of koser salt.
10oz of Cheerwine ( soda Pop ).
10oz of E&J BRANDY.
((Optional))-- a half cup of plain flour. This will help the mix bind for the beginner.
((Optional))-- a splash of Superior Verycherry.
((Optional))-- substitute the soda and brandy with 20oz of Mad Dog 2020.
Late Summer Millet Packbait, Basic Millet Packbait
When the Paylake Carp get tired of rice and still won't take Oats Millet is a have to go to. JMHO
50lbs Hulled Millet
7lbs Wheatbrand
7lbs plain flour
3lbs Soybean meal
7 quarts of Syrup.
I use a garden wheelbarow and a hoe and dry mix all except the surup. Then add the syrup and go to it with the hoe. It will seem too dry at the start but have faith. When it is done it will look alive and crawling in the wheelbarow while mixing. I then bag it in 1gal ziploc bags pushing all the air out before sealing. Stack them in a cool place ( a closet ). I make mine up plain (no flavor) and add the flavor of choice while fishing. Pour the contents of one bag into a bucket and add the flavor and mix with your hands. It will last for months. If you want to make up a smaller amount just do the math.
The syrup I choose is a plain, cheap, clear syrup. No flavored syrup please. Blue Bird is the brand I use but Sams will have some that will work too.
A tip for packing the bait, wet your hands with pond water first then the syrup won't stick to your hands.
The Soybean meal is (optional), but I like it cause it will help the bait hold the flavor you add. Not much to hold flavor with millet.
CHOW Packbait, When the water temp is below 50
Chow packbait is not an easy packbait to make. ( Having the ability to break in about 2 mins ).
3lbs of Chow.
1 can of cream style corn.
All Chow is not created equal. Some are very course and some are fine ground. Some are even pelletized. The larger the size the longer it will take to soak and not float. You can heat up the cream corn in a micro and that will speed up the process. It will seem too dry but if you get it too wet then you will have a dough bait. I like to use kool-aid as a flavoring. 2pks of cherry and 1 pack of strawberry per mix. Dry mix first and then add the cream style corn.
JMHO.
Bread Pack- Also for Cold Weather
When the water gets so cold ya don’t know if there will be ice on the pond when ya get there or not, bread Pack is the bait that will make your trip pay off.
2 loaves of plain white bread.—nothing fancy--.
Put them in a blender/food processor a few slices at a time ( 3 or 4 ).
Grind them up as fine as possible. Grind up both loaves and put them in a Gal zip lock baggie “”QUICK “”. The trick using bread pack is not to let it dry out, and it will before you know it, and it will be no good. Squeeze all the air out of the baggie (( gently )), and seal it. It will stay good for a few weeks if you keep it cool and out of the sunlight. It should be tested to check the breaking time when ya get to the pond. To test it, put a Puff in it and pack it and chunk it in. wait for the Puff to float to the surface and whala. You should be able to pack it just as hard as needed, and no more, to make a cast anywhere you choose. the harder you pack it the longer it takes to bread. And the longer the bread has been ground the harder you will need to pack it. Somewhere in there is a sweet spot you will get comfortable with.
The pickups will need to be modified a bit and the hook size will need to down sized to at least a 1/0. When I use Corn Puffs for pickups I will break them in half and use then straight on the hook. I do put a little extra on the pickups but I think plain will do ya’ll just fine.
Good luck, its been working for me for a long time.
Tom.
when I fish bread Pack, which is now till March, I never use any flavoring at all in the pack. I do however do a little something to my pickup. If you want to flavor it I would let some bread sour after I had ground it and mix it with my fresh ground bread. Work$ for me.
Rice packbait., Summertime Packbait of choice.
Rice Pack, probably one of, if not the best mid-summer packbaits I've ever used. If an angler has never had his hands in a " good " rice pack then it is almost impossible to imagine. For those that have, please bear with me while I do my best to bring the rest on board.
1 box 28oz of MINUTE RICE
1 32oz HUNTS Ketchup
8oz of non chlorinated water
1 Tbl spoon Kosher Salt
MAKE NO SUBSITUTIONS IN PRODUCT. If you do you will waist your time and money. If you don't know how to make rice pack then you dont know enough to start with the cheap substitutes.
Pour the Rice into a 5gal bucket with a lid that will seal.
Put the Ketchup, water, Salt and flavoring ( Superior vanillabutternut, 1 and 1/2 inches out of the bottle), into a pot and bring to boil. ((( you must stirr continuiously or it will stick and burn and you'll be scroood)))).
When I say bring to a boil I mean bring to a boil.
Then pour the liquid onto the rice and stir, put the lid on, pick the bucket up and slam in down on the floor twice hard enough to make everything go to the bottom of the bucket, and let sit an hour.
Open the bucket and stirr by hand completely, put the lid back on and let stand for another half hour. Go fishing.
The Rice packbait will be a little sticky to start with but after an hour or so will be great. The rice pack will be no good the next day so use it up.
P.S. I like my rice packbait to be sticky, cause it will stick to my pickup and is Killer. My pickup of choice is my Rippin Puff. Plain Corn Puffs will do just fine though.
While I would never say that any one thing equals success at any Event, I would say that it is a combination of many things that make the difference.
1. I never shave or use underarm before an event. The cent of after shave and saving cream just can't be removed.
2. I always take the water temps to assure the proper bait.
3. My buckets are always squeeky clean.
4. My baits are made at the Event, for the Event. Fresh means everything.
5. I never use Salt that isnt Koser.
6. I never use tap water of any kind. I use the water from the pond/river at the Event.
7. I never put on sun screen or bug repelent at an Event.
8. I always chew tobacco so I can tend any bug bites.
9. I never use any substitutes when it comes to ingredience used in my bait making. The same only different sucks.
10. I always take into consideration the teams on my right and left and build my baiting campaign on this.
Having a basic understanding of just what baits/flavors are and what they should do at any given time.
1. I feel that flavors are attractants and should be used as needed depending on the water current, temp, and head of carp.
2. My pickup is not bait. A boilie is just a pickup. If I thought that a boilie was bait then it would ruin all that I do.
3. A bait is to hold the fish once they have been attracted.
4. The pickup should trigger the strike. If it doesnt then it isnt doing what it should and you will never haul.
4. Baits should be very specific of makup. I don't care what bait you chose it should be very specific as the the makup. What I mean is that if I fish grits I only fish grits, not grits and oats.
4. I never mix up baits and flavors in my swim. Never. It will Kill a good swim if two people fish the same swim but use different baits and flavors.
Chum.
My chum is never what I fish with per say. My chum should be better than my competitors bait but not as good as my bait. I never change my chum once I start the Event. My chum is always just as simple as my bait but designed to spread out and keep the fish buisy while I reel the fish in and rebait for the next. I should be able to hold a very large shaol of fish as long as you want to hold them.
Now, I'm not saying that any of the things I do make any difference at all but I believe they do and its what I've been doing for many years and it works for me, most every time.
Ye ole Knuckle Dragger Tom.