Clay34
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Posts posted by Clay34
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Thanks guys for the encouragement. I was just talking to a friend this morning who is mentoring a young lady and her boy friend in the way of fly fishing for carp. FishDave posts here and seeing the smiles on new fly fishers as they have the bend in their rods, is a grand experience. If we all just tried to make some time for a new fisherman, it would be a good thing for the sport and our way of life. Take that neighbor kid with you the next time you go. The rewards are many.
Rick
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If the water is very murky use this to your advantage and get close to the fish if possible. I just don't see takes as far as line movement so indicators wouldn't be for me, I also don't feel strikes. I like your comment on setting the hook when you think it is right. I just finished watching a czech nymphing video and they were fishing grayling. A guy on the US fly fishing team was given a place to fish and told the fish are they go catch them. He fish for a bit of time with no or little success. The guy that was teaching him Vladi, a world champion polish nympher, came down and took the rod away from him and caught grayling on his first cast. When the US team guy asked him how he did that he went on to tell a story about knowing where the fish are and setting the hook when the fish should have eaten the fly if a fish was going to eat the fly. Now what does grayling fishing have to do with carp fishing?
You are close to the carp, position the fly where it will be on the feeding end of the fish and when it doubt hook set! I think that you are absolutely right in that you are probably getting bit, but don't recognize it as a bite and therefore miss fish. John's comments on watching the fish change position is a key point. Lee is a master at fishing in the muddy stuff. I like to key in on somehting that I can see and take the visual ques to hook set. Keep at it and hook set often. Remember that carp don't eat with their tails. Not trying to be funny, just trying to empasize that the hook has to not only be close to the fish, but be close to the eating end of the fish.
Rick
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Thanks, MrP.
I'll be on the hunt again this weekend. Supposedly the place I'm going holds larger fish. Hope to find out for myself on Saturday.
Congrats on the nice fish. Good luck this coming weekend with the hunt for larger fish. It's almost like they are a different speciies. Finding those fish will be a huge step in the right direction.
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I have been fishing in the parks many times on the river. There are many carp there and many kids. A couple of weeks ago this young boy and his father kept watching me catch fish. I finally asked the little guy if he wanted to try and land one of the fish that I hooked. He had a riot and I let him reel in the next two fish. He looks to be 11 or 12 years old.
Today while out on the water I noticed the same father and son team and they had a fly rod with them. They were untangling some knots in their leader as I walked up. I looked at the kid and said something about the new fly rod. He said that he saw me catching fish with one and wanted one so dad bought him one. Made me smile. Anyhow I asked if he wanted a 5 minute casting lesson to which he agreed quickly. The knots he was using were just not right so I showed them how to tie an improved clinch and a double surgeons knot. I added some fluro to his leader since he needed new tippet and left him with about a doz flies. The wind was blowing, but when I left his rod position was better and he actually paused on the back cast. Note, the fly that I tied on the kids new rod, I mashed the barb down. I told dad that they both could use a set of cheap polaroid glasses for eye protection and to see the fish.
While the fish were not very cooperative today, I did catch another fly fisherman and that was cool.
Rick
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Sounds like a grand experience, you're a lucky man.
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I've read where people like Brad Befus and other have had good success with them. If you see carp eating those seeds, sure, go get yourself some seed flies. In my area the water can be thick with cottonwood seeds and I have never seen a carp eat one. Not a single time. There are many carp here and many seeds. My theory is that they will eat them when they don't have a choice of a better food source. If they are already fat by eating scuds or emergers or other insect life they avoid the seeds. Again, this is just me making up a possible answer to fit what I see. Maybe they eat the seeds once submerged in my area, but have never seen them take one on the top with a large density of carp and a large density of seeds. The pattern is one that I will pass on in my location. Other parts of the country it might be a required fly. Good luck with your fishing and let us know how they work for you if you choose to tie them.
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You don't need to see your fly in order to sight fish...just watch the fish, you'll know roughly where your fly is. WT once said that a "carp can untie your fly from your tippet and you won't feel a thing." he is right...but if you watch the fish and they do something they were NOT doing when your fly is near the zone, set the hook.
Grand advice. When taking someone new to carpin' the hardest thing for me is to teach the bite difference between carp and trout, bass or even bluegill. I rarely see the line move or feel a bite. I prefer to watch the fish take the fly and set on that but it the fish repositions, hook set indeed.
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thanks john, i think the indicator will work because i dont think i will really be able to see the fly but i can see the fish.
im going this week end and hope to catch my first on a fly rod.
Thanks for the info
FTB95
Check out the thread here that I posted on BS'ing carp. It basically acts as an indicator or solves that same issue in a different way.
On fishing rivers, even muddy rivers, I try to locate fish before I even get the line wet. While some are successful at blind casting, I just refuse to do it. It's a waste of my time. Find the fish and fish to the fish. Try a dry fly pattern if they are clooping at the top. . Right now a terrestrial is a great tempting offering this time of year. I just tied up some of Kelly Galloup's Ant Acids: http://www.theweeklyfly.com/index.php/TheW...-ant-acid-15-19
Last comment is that sight fishing doesn't have be fishing for carp in gin clear water. As Lee often fishes just mud clouds but still there is somehting "sight" that triggers a presentation into that spot. Sometimes sight fishing is just getting a glimpse of a tail. Beside you rod and reel I wouldn't even go fishing without polaroid glasses. They protect your eyes from brush, other fly fisherman (don't ask) and they let you see in the water. Mandatory equipment indeed.
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Ray, thanks for the link even though I didn't get it to work for me, I will have to play with it some more. Went to google maps . com and played with that but no depth readings. Luckily in Wis we have this site from our state department of natural resources: http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/water/fhp/l...ap/LKmaps_a.htm
Other states might want to check out their DNR or whatever that state calls it for free maps. These can also be printed out, saved and opened and info logged onto that saved document. I keep a daily log of my fishing, I could even insert the map into my log. More tools are always good. We really have info at our finger tips these days compared to just a few short years ago.
Spent some time tying today, weather was too miserable with constant storms to go fishing.
Rick
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Thanks John, you have me motivated.
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I have the bug to find larger fish. A few days ago I was in the car and drove to many new swims in search of larger fish, over 100 miles in the car. Yesterday we had some very strong storms but I still wanted to go out. The best time to go fishing is when you can. We checked out about 6 new swims, but I never saw a fish and never even took the rod out of the case. I think that was a first for me. I had the rods with me and I never fished, just scouted. I have been on many scouting trips only without rods, but when I take the rods, I usually fish, but then again, I usually find fish.
I tried some flats on a larger lake but the white caps were also on that end of the lake. John Montana has me tooking at lake maps and targeting shallow flats next to deeper water. Over two hundred miles in the car this week scouting with very little to show for the effort except a lighter gas tank. Just thought that I would vent.
Rick
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John, thanks for taking the time to share some grand words of wisdom with the rest of us in search of bigger fish. Love your sense of modesty and your experience level, those two combined traits are rare these days. I know that I need to make a gear shift as far as locations go. For me I have to make a conscious decision to either go to the same old spots with many smaller fish or do the leg work to find new locations. I've been fishing the local river often. There are some larger lakes close by that I have to hit. Again, thanks for the primer on big fish.
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Beautiful fish indeed. Nicely done on the 6 wt.
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Thanks guys...the columbia is quite a fishery! I would say the average fish out here is between 7-9 lbs, but without a doubt there are certain water types that you can find a larger avg. I've landed 9 fish this year that weighed over 20 lbs (I do carry a small digital scale) and last year I got 14 over 20. Last year is really the first time I figured out how to find the big fish...before that it was just a matter of lucking onto one on a normal flat. Out here, the big fish frequent different water. They stay out deep, and only occasionally go in shallow. At least that has been my experience. I'd love to fish lake MI, I know the average fish there is bigger than the columbia...one day i'll get to those flats!
Thanks for the hints John, but you can't just tease us and expect us to let you get away with that. This post gave me a kick in the pants to find some bigger fish. I have been catching many smaller fish in the 18 to 22 class and can and do catch multiples of those almost on demand, but I have become lazy. Today, I got in the car put on about 110 miles checking out about 7 new spots. Still didn't find anything larger that what I am finding within 6 to 8 minutes from the house.
So this Wisconsin boy isn't coming to Montana to fish any time soon, and I am not asking about specific water but water types. Seems that I do this type of post about once a year for the last couple of years, but what are you looking for in water types? I think from previous posts we talked about fist size boulders with deep water close by. This brings up another point that you teased us with. Did you sight fish that fish and the other larger fish or were you blind casting into deeper water?
I talked to my fishing partner today and told him we were on a small fish pattern. We have been fishing many shoals of small fish clooping. They are easy to see on top in the muddy water and we have been having fun with dry fly patterns this year where in years past I would fish mostly for tailers in clearer water.
So water deepth and your description of the different kind of water that you have found that larger fish are hanging around. I'm still damn jealous but willing to learn.
Rick
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Any fish that gets in the way of the intended target is trash indeed, but I like trash once in a while, spices up life.
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No tatts for this short, fat, old, white guy; but in Wisconsin; home of the Harley, I learned a long time ago that it is more about what is in the man than on him. Life is all good and if you chase carp with a fly rod, even though you look funny to us old guys - you're alright -
I have worn double billed caps for years and years. One friend actually told me that I couldn't fish in his boat looking like that. We like to give each other grief once in a while - it's all in fun. I just ordered and wore for the first time one of those Arabian king type of hats fly fishing. One of those hats with the very long fabric that completely covers your neck. Being fairly light, I go from no tan to lobster in short order. That head dress is interesting and looks very practical but don't go in the bank with one on or come to my front door either.
Enjoyed the photos SE. A man must have a passion to chase them in that heat.
Rick
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Godfather indeed. Many on this board will understand the allure of catching carp on the fly rod, many have fun catchig the smaller fish and I am among that group, but few realize just how rare it is to consistantly find, let alone actually catch big carp consistantly. That large of fish with these water temps and her power must have been a true thrill to taste. Congrats and yet another truly marvelous adventure that you will remember for years and years. Especially sweet having it happen with your father as your fishing partner because those days won't last forever but moments together on the water will.
Rick
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Sometimes the passion is just being on the water, life is good.
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A friend was reading a book on fish behavior and the book referenced a study that measured how many times a fish could be fooled into trying to eat an artificial bait until they stopped trying to eat it. Carp were the quickest learners avoiding a bait after only being hooked with it once. I think this accounts for the carp avoiding the unnatural colored flies after they got wise to them.
It is interesting to see that the carp were not spooked by the bead on the line. I know if i throw a fly too close to the carp they will spook regardless of the fly if it is big enough to make a splash. I think that is because these carp are targeted by bait fisherman and they learn to associate the splash with bad news. Were you able to throw these flies close to the fish, or did you throw it beyond the fish and pull it into the strike zone? Did you allow the bead to slip along the leader or did you tie it in?
Thanks for the post!
Sorry, I was away a for a few days, fishing no less.
I cast beyond the fish and bring into the strike zone. I, like you, have made casts where the fly lands on top of them, this is almost always a bad presentation since it spooks them. Some times when fishing a dry and a parachute type presentation where you cast the fly high, shock the leader and fly above the water and let the fly fall gently to the surface, I can get some good results. I learned that one at a Jason Borger casting presentation, but can't remember the name of it, but I do use that cast often for a gentle presentation. Possible a tuck cast or parachute cast, but like I said, I can't remember.
A little more on the bead itself, it was very light material and when the fly is stalled in the water it helps the fly "hang" right infront of the fish and this longer "hang time" is a great trigger. I just put the bead on the tippet section and let it slide around and as I position the fly it slides down to the fly if it wasn't already there from the cast. Sliding up and down the line was a non-issue.
I'll ask Bob what he bought specifically for a brand of Bead at Gander Mtn and post his answer when I find out. We are getting together tomorrow night about a fly tying class so I can ask him then.
Rick
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Fly looks similar to my giant gold ribbed hare's ear. Buggy and brown. Lee I find many times that presentation is more important than pattren, but then again, I have seen them absolutely flip the switch from off to on when a fly is changed. Nice to know you are having fun with that one. Nice numbers this year. I really haven't totalled up the number of fish but yesterday made my 38th day on the water this season. I seem to be catching a lot of smaller fish right now, 21 t 23" fish and long for those fish in the 30" plus category. Have to make a location change on my end. It's so much fun catching the smaller fish that it is difficult to change and scout though. It's all fun.
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I have been spreading the word of carp among my trouting friends. Our very own, one time VP of our local TU and I have been chasin' carp together this season. Some revelations have occurred durring this time for both of us. A couple of outtings ago we realized that the fish were taking brightly colored flies and that these flies made is easier for the fisherman to see the fly and it's exact placement in the water in relationship to the fish's mouth. But after fishing the same area a couple of time, these fish are smart and no longer accepted our bright chartruese and neon ornage flies. We had to make a gear shift back to a natural colored fly. The smaller fly and the natural color gave both of us older guys a hard time in seeing where the fly was in the water. I know that I can look at the end of the fly line and kind of judge where the fly is by guessing how long the leader is, but that wasn't as precise as we needed it to be.
My fishing partner Bob S. had a epiphany. Take one of the walleye beads that many put on inline spinner or crawler harnesses above the natural fly and then the fly can be a natural color but the bead will stand out easily. I'm sure that you can actually tie the bead into the fly pattern but this allowed all of his trout flies to become instantly visable in the water. This had a couple of other effects on presentation. I was able to present a fly much father out and tell where it was, not just because of the color of the bead but the bead made a bigger wake when I drug it through the water. I could cast beyond a fish at 50', drag the fly to the sweet spot and as I did so the larger bead make a much larger wake in the water than the fly alone. One I reached the sweet spot I just let the fly pause right infront of the fish. The bead also helped the fly suspend directly in the sweet spot.
Since this is Bob's baby and I had nothing to do with coming up with the idea just its application on the water and realizing the benefits that it afforded me in a presentation method, I started calling it the Bob rig. Then I realized the my buddy's last name starts with S, so I said that I was BSing the carp with this rig. I landed 8 fish last night in just about 2 hours of fishing locally. While the fish were not large, the technique was so different than anything that I have done before I thought I would share the BSing or Bob's rig with the rest of my carp buds. This is one of the smaller carp of the night but it shows the rig pretty well. That's just a size 10 hare's ear beneath that bead, but you can fish whatever trips your trigger that is more difficult to see.
So to recap:
Better fly viability not only with the color but size of wake while moving the fly
suspends well right infront of the fish.
I found it a great solution to the problem we were having and another key in unlocking the puzzle. Hope it helps put some fish on the end of your line.
Rick
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With your determination, I knew that you would make it! Love that rubber leg pattern too.
Rick
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I've been doing quite well this year with dry flies. Strange occurance really because the last couple of years I have fished tailing fish almost exclusively and I never could catch the cloopers or top feeding fish. I fish a lot of weight, tungstun and lead compbined and fished on the bottom for the tailers. This whole season has been fishing actively feeding fish on the top.
I run into the same thing often. My best fishing parner and I were out today. I have taken him in and tried my best to make a carper out of this trout and salt water fishing friend. Learning that the bite is completely different has been his biggest challenge but today it all came together for him and I said that "the pebble has been snatched from my hand and now it is time for you to leave" Old kung fun series analogy.
If I cast and make 5 or 6 good presentations to a fish and they react to the fly at all I change patterns. While I often say it is more about presentation that specific fly carp can be very picky indeed, but once the puzzle is solved or the right key is found to unlock the door sometimes the results are very dramatic. Today to prove that it is less about pattern than presentation I threw a salmon egg pattern at carp. While I had a couple of takes, they were half hearted. I had to switch patterns to get them to go.
In 4 hours of fishing this morning I landed 8, had several others on and my friend had similar luck and landed 10. So 18 fish in 4 hours was one of the better days.
To your question specifically. If the fish were reacting to that fly and came over and looked at it I would have kept that fly on and tried to find another group of fish. You might have been busted - they saw or heard you. Were drab clothing and try not to silhouette yourself on a high bank or make a lot of noise. If those fish responded to that fly others probably will too.
Sometimes even if they like the pattern but bust you, no matter what you do from that point on they won't bite and look for a different group of fish. If you really can't find another pod of fish, rest them for a little bit and change pattern and try again. We worked an area today that was only 200 yards long and there were several pods of fish working this stretch. After a few casts to one group and they made one of us it was time to walk down the river and find another group.
Keep at them and try different patterns.
Sorry for the long post but I'm on a roll. One of the keys today was having a fly that the fisherman could see in the strained water. This way you could tell exactly where the fly is in relation to the fish. Guess what, the tail of the fish doesn't eat a fly. We had a grand time with an orange rubber legg and dubbed body pattern. The key was that we could see it. Go get 'em man.
Rick
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I have this in my favorites file: http://www.flyfishusa.com/tackle-tips/lead...ut-leaders.html It's short and to the point and has some solid info.
Now after struggling and contemplating making my own leaders for weeks last year I ran across a great deal on knottless taper leaders for about 50 cents each and bought 50 of them. By the time I bought the required spools of Maxima and a blood knot jig and then tied them up with my time and they would still catch things like dog wood cotton and slime on the knots, I don't ever plan on tying my own, But the knowledge of leader construction has always interested me.
If I was paying $5 t $7 a leader you bet I would probably tie them myself. These are on sale at about $1.50 each These are 75 pennies each - you figure out if it is worth your time to make them yourself:
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/2249,83...ers-2-Pack.html
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/2249,73...ers-Leader.html
First Grass Carp
in Carp on the Fly
Posted
Dave, that is truly a wonderful set of pictures and video. You were lucky to have your own vidiographer on site while landing such a memorable fish. What a grand experience, glad that you shared it here as well.
I'm jealous.
Rick