(GA) needmotime2fish
-
Posts
320 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Articles
VIDEO'S & other MEDIA
Forums
Store
Downloads
Events
Gallery
Posts posted by (GA) needmotime2fish
-
-
The other thing to remember is carp have been here a very long time. They are not native like 70% of the other species in lakes such as bass, pike and various species of fish. The only difference is dollar signs that makes it ok for the other fish to be there regardless of what damage they may do to native fish. Carp can be blamed for anything because no one is there to defend against them.
You're right, Brian !!! We're up against the MONEY. No one protects carp because the bowfishers spend $$$ on expensive bows and related equipment, plus BOATS, which all adds up to a lot more $$$ than we carp anglers spend. Plus, even though some carpers do spend a significant amount on tackle, quite a few of them choose to spend their money on equipment ordered from suppliers outside the USA, so those $$$ aren't considered as contributing to our economy.
Also, we don't invest in lures -- mostly just "bait". And many (most ?) of us make our own. So there again, we're not contributing nearly as many $$$ to the economy as the other species anglers or the bowfishers.
-
Not to belabor this point, but here's an example of the problem with bowfishing -- as it is currently run.
On the bowfishing thread of the GON (Georgia Outdoor News) forum, there's a new posting announcing an upcoming tournament this next weekend. The format of this tournament is "Big 20", which suggests that the participants will weigh their 20 biggest fish.
This is a problem for us -- the carp "anglers" -- on two fronts, first because they intend to kill 20 fish each (or maybe 'only' 20 per boat?). I don't know if they're limited to killing just 20 fish or not, or if they kill as many as possible and only weigh the heaviest 20. Unlike a BASS tournament, they can't cull smaller fish by releasing them unharmed. But the second -- and more significant -- problem is that they will be targeting the biggest fish available. It's conceivable that this single event could result in the "harvest" of as many as 20 big carp, multiplied by as many bowfishermen who participate. That could lead to a LOT of potential trophies being wiped out.
If we could somehow convince them to adopt rules similar to those David suggested -- which would to emphasize their own skills instead of the size of their quarry -- we anglers could co-exist much better with the bowfishers.
As an update, I checked the results of the "Big 20" bowfishing tournament (held 03/07/15), as posted on the GON forum. The fish that were weighed in totaled slightly over 1,500 pounds. That did include gar and catfish, along with carp. And the "big fish" was a 20 pound flathead -- not a carp. As near as I could tell, the next largest fish were "low teens", so at least this tournament didn't kill any "trophy carp". The thread also clarified the "Big 20" format -- each team (or boat, with up to 4 people) weighs its heaviest 20 fish.
There were no photos posted, so I wasn't able to tell how many carp were killed compared with other species. However, the results did show the winning team of the "Numbers Side Pot" with a count of 120. I assume that means that they shot 120 fish, but then only weighed their largest 20 (that team finished in 2nd place for the "Big 20" tournament with 161 pounds).
Four teams each weighed 149.7 pounds or more (1st place was over 190), and 12 teams weighed at least 87 pounds. Assuming that the other teams killed numbers of fish in roughly the same ratio of fish-per-pound-weighed as the #2 team (3 fish killed per every 4 pounds of weight -- 120 fish : 161 pounds), that would mean that more than 1,100 fish were probably killed altogether.
That's not necessarily true, of course. Maybe some of the other teams only shot at larger fish, while that particular team was shooting at everything. But if they had a "numbers" side pot, that's doubtful.
The numbers and total weight also makes me wonder how they disposed of that many fish. I HOPE they were put to good use.
-
Just to be clear, when you're talking about "hats", do you mean something like the floppy style hat in Brian's avatar (FiSherwood), or are you talking about a baseball-style "cap"?
If you want to differentiate between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places, you might consider using the "County Fair Blue Ribbon" method --
1st place => blue hat 2nd place => red hat 3rd place => white hat Each one with a CAG patch, of course.
BTW, here's my 2-cents' worth regarding prizes:
As much as I appreciated having the Olympic-style medals to give out last year, I think, if I was a winner, I would more appreciate a hat that I can wear, than a medal that I'd eventually just put in a drawer in my bedroom. I still occasionally wear a fishing cap I got years ago for having a cost-saving idea published in Bassmaster. If they had given me a medal or belt buckle instead, I probably wouldn't know where to find it today.
-
For approximately $230 plus shipping, you can have two rods, two reels and two bite alarms and the basic items needed to catch, land and release carp effectively. I picked items that are all available from www.bankfishingsystems.com so that you only have to pay for shipping once. You can mix and match from different sites, but you will need to take shipping into consideration.
Great post, Brian. Sorry to say, however, that BFS recently ceased its operation, and the website was taken down. Big Carp Tackle still has (or had, as of a week ago) some BFS items available.
-
Dave Moore suggested that point system and I provided some hunting program info that backed it up. It's a great idea along with working to stress more responsible harvest, for a purpose. I hugely butted heads with Dave and Supporters early methods re dealing with bowing; being a bowing AND carp fishing advocate AND pro resource manager puts me in a fascinating yet oft times unpopular position in all camps since I see and understand many perspectives of the issue. My feelings on carp have evolved over the decades, leaning on the current science of carp and evolving invasive biology to determine how trophy carp fishery might be promoted and addressed under current NA sporting, conservation, fishery and pro business / enturpernur environment. You're right, it can be done, like managing any other Game or Fish resource, but it will take time and coordination with others in the field and on the water.
Not to belabor this point, but here's an example of the problem with bowfishing -- as it is currently run.
On the bowfishing thread of the GON (Georgia Outdoor News) forum, there's a new posting announcing an upcoming tournament this next weekend. The format of this tournament is "Big 20", which suggests that the participants will weigh their 20 biggest fish.
This is a problem for us -- the carp "anglers" -- on two fronts, first because they intend to kill 20 fish each (or maybe 'only' 20 per boat?). I don't know if they're limited to killing just 20 fish or not, or if they kill as many as possible and only weigh the heaviest 20. Unlike a BASS tournament, they can't cull smaller fish by releasing them unharmed. But the second -- and more significant -- problem is that they will be targeting the biggest fish available. It's conceivable that this single event could result in the "harvest" of as many as 20 big carp, multiplied by as many bowfishermen who participate. That could lead to a LOT of potential trophies being wiped out.
If we could somehow convince them to adopt rules similar to those David suggested -- which would to emphasize their own skills instead of the size of their quarry -- we anglers could co-exist much better with the bowfishers.
-
I've only caught them in local parks here in GA, but a lot of subdivisions with lakes stock then for weed control.
I have my son-in-law's brother baiting the area off his back yard (lakefront) for me. I plan to catch a few this spring when the weather warms up a bit.
So far, EVERY grasser I've caught was on canned corn, but I know they can be caught on other baits.
-
They opened an Ollie's in my area last summer. I loaded up on their cheap spices and flavorings, like anise, vanilla, cayenne, cinnamon, chili powder, etc. Also bought some Kellogg's Corn Pops -- I tried using some of their cereal as a substitute for corn puffs, but those didn't work out.
-
- Bowfishing (as a stakeholder) should play a part in this strategy as well since it is the largest growing form of "fishing" and perceived good for the environment. Wildlife agencies are missing out on a huge pot of revenue, a loophole of sorts, by not requiring an added licensing fee or stamp for anyone bowfishing. A hybrid of fishing and hunting, treat it like both with some regulation and monies going toward environmental conservation like that of fishing licenses. If I'm not mistaken bowfishing is permitted under a general fishing license, if it falls under anything.
I've tried communicating with some of the bowfishers through the GON (Georgia Outdoor News) forum. Some of them seem quite reasonable, and I think they might be amenable to some sort of regulation. However, by its very nature, the "sport" of bowfishing also attracts an element who are in it only because it allows them to legally go out and kill something. Unfortunately, those guys are often the most vocal in opposing change.
I don't believe that all bowfishers simply want to slaughter as many fish as possible. Several I've chatted with tell me that they always give their kill to needy families who appreciate the meat, and none will admit to having left their kills floating at the dock or to having discarded them in the trash. But both of those do happen. It's worth noting that it's not only the bowfishers who sometimes throw dead carp on the shore to rot. Other anglers who are targeting different species and 'accidentally' catch a carp sometimes do the same thing. As evidence, I've seen dead carp left on the bank in parks where bowfishing isn't permitted.
As proponents of responsible carp fishing, we need to do more to educate other anglers that carp aren't the "evil invaders" as they might have been taught, and we also need to work with the bowfishers to encourage them to be more responsible in their harvest -- for example, by putting emphasis on targeting more small fish, instead of the bigger trophy-sized carp. Someone suggested in another thread, that we encourage the bowfishers to assign higher values to smaller fish, with points decreasing as the fish they kill get larger (for example -- 10 points for a 5 pound or smaller fish, 5 points for 6-10 pounds, 3 points for 11-15, and negative points for fish larger than 15 pounds). After all, it takes much more skill to shoot a smaller fish than a bigger one.
Most of us know that (1) many/most sportsmen today grew up with a prejudice against carp, and (2) bowfishing is growing, and because of the dollars it brings to the tackle and boating industry, it has outside support, which affects the 'politics' as well. Then realistically, how can we accomplish the re-education that will be necessary before any significant changes in the way carp are viewed and treated will take place? For one thing, we can all do our part, growing our sport by introducing others to carp fishing. That helps, of course, but doing it "one-on-one is a very slow process.
-
Very good question was asked in the "New CAG Record" thread....Why are there bigger carp in the North than in the South?
Longer growing season in South?? Yes, for crops...but, warm water equals low oxygen and lethargic fish not feeding a lot.
Carp don't eat in water temps lower than 50 ??? Ever noticed that carp are bigger in the spring than they were in the fall? (this after a winter of fasting???) We concluded they eat rather well in the winter....at least well enough with their lower metabolism in cold water to gain weight.
Now, are they bigger in the North than in the South...or is it because more big fish waters are fished by more carp anglers. At the time there were many more of us Northern wild water carpers. For years it was said there were no carp in Florida, except grass carp. Well, I know of a few places in Florida that big carp are caught on a regular basis ie 30 plus lb. The majority of our southern members were paylakers and hadn't explored wild waters that much. There's many nice tidal rivers that haven't been explored yet. Santee Cooper in SC also has some very nice sized commons and grass carp.
These are all excellent questions. I grew up in southern PA and fished in MD on the upper Potomac back in the 60s, where I caught a lot of nice carp (some over 30, and one I suspect exceeded 40). But since moving to the Atlanta area in the lats 60s, I have never caught a wild carp over 20.
Admittedly, I don't put forth the effort to search for them in spots with difficult access, but also note that our record common in GA is just 35 pounds. We do, however, have bigger carp around, as evidenced by some reports from the bow fishermen. Several years ago I saw photos online of three carp killed in one session that were larger than our state record, including two over 40.
So perhaps our "smaller" carp records are just because we don't have anglers looking for them in the right places -- where the big ones are hanging out? Maybe those fish are only accessible to the bowfishers (in boats)? Or are there other influences as well?
It certainly makes sense that our warmer waters raise the metabolism of the local carp, and they should be expected to eat more -- but maybe they also burn up more of what they eat because of that increased metabolism -- and therefore they don't put on weight even though they do eat more. And with less oxygen in the water at times of extreme heat, they can be expected to be more lethargic and go through periods when they don't eat as much. At the other extreme, it's also interesting (from my own observations) that southern carp just don't seem to start to become active as soon after a cold snap as northern carp. You northern guys get out there and start catching soon after "ice out", but here, where we seldom see any ice at all, the carp seem to stay turned off until at least mid-March. Maybe our southern carp have "evolved" such that they don't tolerate cold water as well as their northern cousins that have become acclimated to the extreme cold.
I'm just throwing out some ideas (or maybe they're 'questions'). Also keep in mind that 90% of my carp angling here in GA has been in lakes, but when I lived in the north, I fished mostly in streams and rivers. I'm thinking that the flow of the water in rivers helps even out the temperatures much better than the small amount of current that exists in lakes. That difference could possibly account for the temperature-related observations I noted above regarding southern carp.
Unfortunately, I don't believe that many universities or state DNR agencies are very interested in doing studies on carp. But it would be very enlightening to see a study on growth rates of carp in the north vs in the south. I'm also curious to know how closely the sub-species are related -- which could affect both growth rates and their response to temperature variations. I'd also like to know just how far south carp will live in tidal waters. For example, I know that the Savannah River system has some large carp, but I doubt that anyone has even thought much about fishing for them in the tidal sections of that river. A spot like that could prove to be an untapped resource, or it could be completely barren for carping.
-
Super job! This is an excellent resource and a big step forward.
-
... I agree spring time is spice time.... Cumin or any Indian Spice works well, I usually add to the spod at the bank, less chance of a disastrous spill in the car.
Yeah, I learned that the hard way.
I "usually" keep the lids on my buckets and put down a plastic tarp when I'm transporting any of the really messy stuff.
-
I usually add cinnamon, and either chili powder or cayenne pepper, to my early season spod mix, and save the sweet or fruity stuff for warmer water.
Right or wrong, I've always believed that "spicy" or "hot" is good in cool/cold water, although my results haven't been consistent enough to prove it. Sometimes it works well, other times not as much.
As you noted, I often mix bread into my spod mix. I believe that can help spread the scent/flavor/attractants to a wider area.
-
Congrats, Evan !!!
By the way, Evan is already on top of things. At his suggestion, we've already had several discussions about holding a multi-state fish-in with both SC and GA anglers, plus anyone else who might want to come join us.
-
Guys, Awsome work!!
Although carp are seen by the Michigan DNR as a rough fish, they have been more than willing to answer questions I have had in the past in regards to "rules" ect.
Yes, everyone I've dealt with at the GA DNR has been very helpful. The only difficulty I've experienced has been locating the right person to ask some specific question. But that is an issue of how the DNR is structured -- not with the people working there.
I had several reasons for wanting to have those questions "officially" answered. First, several of our guys like to fish that spot, and some have expressed concern about what is and what is not legal. Second, I've read too many "horror stories" right here on this forum, about guys who suffered the consequences of someone not knowing the regulations (sometimes the one who didn't know was the DNR officer, and not the angler).
I figured that if someone - me in this case - got a direct answer and posted it online, it would provide a reference for local anglers. Then, in the (I hope unlikely) case that someone does get a ticket for fishing illegally, they could refer to this post (and/or the one I posted on the GON Forum) as a defense, since I included the name and contact info for the DNR official who provided the information.
-
Sounds like Mark P is an enlightened DNR Representative, and a credit to his organization.
I will give him a call with your permission, as I'd like to ask him if he would be interested in attending a Multi-State Conference on C&R Carp Fishing.
PM sent
-
In TN, if you fish in waters that contain trout, you have to have a trout stamp even if you are fishing for other species or release any trout caught. This is to keep people from catching trout, keeping them and saying they were fishing for bluegill.
That applies here in GA, too -- except in waters designated as "impoundments". The stretch of the Chattahoochee that's in question here only affects about a mile or so of the river that is clearly defined by specific boundaries. The general state trout regulations apply both upriver and downriver from those boundaries.
-
After chasing my tail for more than a month, I got a "hit" on a post on the GON website from a GA DNR employee, who finally sent me in the right direction to get answers to my questions about carp fishing in Bull Sluice Lake.
Georgia carp anglers have been particularly concerned about the number of rods they can use in this area. That part of the Chattahoochee River is generally defined as a "trout stream", and as such, the trout regulations state that a trout angler may use only one, hand-held rod. However, because Bull Sluice Lake is formed by Morgan Falls Dam, the section of river from the Roswell Road bridge downstream to the dam is also considered an "impoundment". Georgia fishing regs for "impoundments" on a trout stream are different from the general trout fishing regulations. Because of the differences in those rules, a number of local Georgia carpers have been confused as to what is and what is not legal.
It would seem that if an angler is specifically targeting trout -- using trout-type equipment, fishing methods, lures, and.or baits -- or if the angler has trout in his/her possession, then the angler is considered to be fishing for trout, and all trout fishing rules would apply. However, the state does recognize that trout are not the only species in those impoundments, so an angler who is obviously fishing for other species (for example, carp) would NOT be subject to those (trout fishing) rules.
A short time ago, I was able to talk directly with Mark Puig, the DNR Ranger for Fulton County GA to confirm my understanding of the regulations. (Mark's contact info -- Cell: 404-997-3214 ; e-mail: mark.puig@dnr.state,ga,us ).
Mark said that an angler who is obviously carp fishing in that area, and who has no trout in possession: (1) would only need a valid GA fishing license, but would NOT need a trout stamp (trout license); (2) would NOT be subject to the trout fishing restriction of using just one hand-held rod; and (3) could legally pre-bait / chum.
In fact, because the normal trout regs do not apply to impoundments, technically, a carp angler could legally fish during "non-trout-fishing" hours -- except that access to the parks is controlled by the Park Service. Thus, any "after hours" carp fishing would probably have to be done from private property. In other words, the carp fishing itself would be legal, but not the access to the banks in the parks.
Mark also volunteered to join us to discuss these matters, if/when we want to have a get-together. If enough people are interested, let me know, and we'll try to work on it.
-
I definitely agree with you Streeker02. I have measured the Girth on 3 of the same exact length carp and came out with 16, 17, and 18 inches. I don't know much at all about these measurements and carp, but the difference between 16 inches and 18 inches seems like a big difference for a same lengthed carp.
Not only can the girth vary quite a bit from one carp to another, but I've seen a few carp with a girth at the anal fin that was fully 2/3 as large as the girth at the pectoral fin -- while others were only about 1/3 as large. On a large carp of about 3 feet, that difference in the fish's shape or proportion might mean a difference of as much as 10 pounds or more.
-
Andy,
There's not much I could say that somebody else hasn't already said.
Thanks for all your hard work and help. Now take some time for yourself, relax for a while, and go catch some fish.
Tight lines !!!
-
The 2014 medals were well received here in Georgia. I'd like another set for 2015, but I haven't decided yet how to use them this year, so for now, please just save a set for me. I'll provide the stamping info as soon as I figure out the most effective way to use them.
I'm down to my last 3 or 4 CAG brochures, and I'm also nearly out of CAG stickers. I could use 2-3 dozen of each -- 30 seems about right.
I designed and printed my own business card-sized handout, so I don't need any of those.
Thanks!
Barry Shildneck
491 Textbook CT
Lawrenceville, GA 30044
-
There is one place I fish where canoes and swimmers pass in a never ending procession in the summer, jumping and splashing their way through. It used to tick me off, but we do have to share the water. I was determined to catch "in spite of" and to be honest I think that attitude helped me to accept their presence and carry on fishing to the best of my ability( which isn't saying a lot admittedly). I did move slightly...ie maybe 20 yards downstream to where the water was a bit deeper...and kept on catching carp.
the negatives...well there is always the risk of one of them getting the line wrapped around them when I am fighting a decent sized fish, but more worrying is that a lot of people see me catching decent sized carp and thus attract those that fish for the pot. So now I do tend to fish a little earlier or later,but there are days when I fish right on through the crowds and I haven't seen a significant link between # of swimmers, rafters and canoeers and # of bites.
Typically we have access because of the other water users and without them our access could be reduced.
Having said all that, my preference...PEACE AND QUIET AND CARP, but sometimes I have to make do with just the 3rd item on that list...and I can handle that if I have to.
Tony
Those are all excellent observations, Tony.
My major complaint with the swimmers who chose to anchor their boat near me was that they had the whole lake -- or even another part of the same cove -- where they could anchor and swim. I, however, was already fishing, and unlike them, was confined to the shore.
It's all about courtesy (or lack of it) and recognizing one's boundaries.
-
Kudos to you guys
I try to leave my fishing spots a little cleaner than I found them, but your plans go a long way beyond a simple cleanup.
Since we just had two days in a row in the 60s, I fully expect to see some photos of Max doing his L&R routine.
Good luck tomorrow.
-
Unfortunately, I haven't had to deal with that problem for a LONG TIME. I do remember a time many years ago, fishing in MD on the Potomac, when I had three carp on at the same time. Luckily, they hit in decreasing order of their size, and I was fortunate enough to land all three -- more luck than skill, though. In those days we had no "pods", or even rod holders. I just set the drags on the 2nd and 3rd fish light enough to protect my rods, and placed a good sized rock over the rods in front of the reels, and then I took my chances while I fought one fish at a time.
Another day long ago, fishing over chummed maize in a (now closed) pay lake in PA with my Dad, there were several times when we both had a carp on both rods -- four fish at the same time. We used a similar approach -- allowing our second carp to take line while we fought the first (two). We managed to land all four carp at least twice.
The last time I had two fish on at one time, I was able to hand one rod to a passer-by and introduce him to the joy of carp fishing.
-
We never get tired of reading your tales!
+1
Always look forward to them.
Boilie Making
in MI Meet, Greet & Questions
Posted
Todd, I don't actually mind it so much. I usually make a 2-or-3-egg batch at one time. Depending on the size boilies I want to make, that usually yields 150 to 300 boilies. I prepare my dough in fairly small, narrow-sausage-shaped, pieces first, then cover those with plastic wrap to keep them from drying out (while I'm rolling one of the other pieces). Then I sit in my easy chair and roll them, one at a time, while I watch TV. It's not too bad if you roll them while you're doing something else.
I boil mine in the late evening and let them dry thoroughly overnight, before I bag and freeze them.
I have also flattened my dough with a rolling pin, cut it up into small particles (1/8" - 1/4" squares), then boiled & dried them. They sometimes work well when added to a spod mix, especially if you set aside some of them to use as a pickup on the hair (5%-10%).
Based on the advice in some of these other posts, I've been cooking mine too long. I think I need to cut back on my boiling time.