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RichB

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    What is a Mirror Carp ?

    in Beginning Carping

    Posted · Edited by RichB

    Neil, nice copy and paste :D

    I thought you were kidding Mark...but it is an actual copy/paste..

    actually, an n-allele model is developed for the FMR1 locus, which causes the fragile X syndrome, where n is the number of triplet repeats in the first exon. Frequencies in the general population and in index families are used to generate an n to n + delta transition matrix that predicts specific risks in satisfactory agreement with observation. However, until sequencing distinguishes between stable and unstable alleles with the same value of n, it is premature to infer whether allelic frequencies at the FMR1 locus are at equilibrium or, as some have suggested, are evolving toward higher frequencies of the pathogenic allele.

    From here...

    Mental retardation eh? That's REAL nice....

    I caught 3 mirror carp in the US. Does that mean I have caught 300 fish? :D:D

    R

    barbless hook

    in Beginning Carping

    Posted

    RickEy,

    I don't believe I have ever said I have data on hook form.  You know, actually I am a fan of treble (triple) hooks.  It is sad that they have such a bad name.  I have never seen a fish fair hooked have more damage than a single hook until the angler (usually fishermen) goes to work.

    As for foul hooks, well as much damage can and is done by a single hook as a treble.  Just my opinion mine you.

    Among single hooks I like microbarbed.

    Phone

    Thanks for the info Fone, so the jury is out on all hooks, with maybe barbless being brutal based on some opinion of fishermen. That's good enough for me to avoid them.

    R

    barbless hook

    in Beginning Carping

    Posted

    I feel I may have generalised a little - yes Uk lakes are pressurised however that pressure varies. On the wholle the standard of carp damage on what one may call 'specimen waters' ( ie bloody difficult lakes with low stocks of big fish ) compared to what we call 'runs waters' ( ie lots of smaller carp ) differs greatly. The former, due to thier nature, tend to attract more experienced anglers, the later less so. Guess which have the poorer record on mouth damage.

    The worst examples of carp damage that I've encountered are on match lakes, where bullying the fish in tends to be the norm due to the demands of catching as many fish as possible in a fixed short time. Do paylakes suffer this problem?

    So really Steve, there is no answer to which hook might be kinder, or are you still leaning towards the barbed being better? I at least know how to take that out with a swift movement and leaving no damage. I wonder if you play a carp with a barbless hook it tends to rip more? Is that what Phone was saying?

    R

    barbless hook

    in Beginning Carping

    Posted

    frankievalli77, macfish here. I wonder if you might not have better luck if you tried other waters, maybe a pond or lake close to you. It sounds like the river you've been fishing in may not be a good place for you or the fish. Ask around to see if anyone fishes for carp locally. Try places that sell bait. They often know of places that are good for different types of fish. Another place you could ask at is any genuine fishing tackle store, especially one that is owned by an older very friendly gentleman/woman. They tend to be pretty knowledgeable about such things. If that doesn't help maybe we can hook you up with somebody geographically close to you. Jonathan

    Knowing Steve as I do, I am sure if there was a water with even a sniff of carp in it in a geographical location near him, he would be fishing it. Carp fishing in the UK is completely different to the US because, as he has suggested, they are saturated.

    Given such hard fishing on the waters, I wonder if it is possible to tell the difference between hook damage due to poor playing techniques vs hook damage due to rubbish unhooking. The reason I am interested in this at all is that I was wondering whether there was a part of carp care that I'm currently missing out on. I use both barbed and barbless hooks and can only comment on the fish I DO catch, rather than the ones that get away. I wonder lost fish is the source of the damage or whether the situation is as black and as white as being limited to one aspect of the catch such as playing, unhooking or lost fish.

    I think as a group who has one of the four goals as to "promote carp care" it's is important to me at least. I was wondering if any actual data existed that people used to back up the idea that one is better than the other. That would be ideal, but I'm not here to engage in a purely theoretical debate. If there is some evidence that upon using barbless hooks the fish suddenly started appearing with parrot mouths, this would at least be some indication that the barbless hook is rubbish. To those on the bank wondering about the equipment I have to care for carp (the antiseptic, the mat etc) I would like to add the fact I use barbed hooks as, contrary to what you might think, they are kinder to the fish.

    As Steve said the carp care comes with the sort of rig you make and it is important to make one that will fall appart if you lose the fish, to prevent it from trailing a 3oz lead and 20lb braid until it is caught again. However, this should be extended to the sort of hook used.

    Don't worry, I'm not asking for a CAG directive or anything so stupid (:D) and I won't go on about it, but I'm merely trying to get to the bottom of this so it will dictate my own personal choice. I'm just interested what everyone else thinks.

    I don't feel I have hijacked the thread because Phone has answered the original question. It depends on the angler.

    Rich.

    barbless hook

    in Beginning Carping

    Posted

    Rickey,

    I kinda like the 'e'.  What does your mom know.

    There is tons of emperical data.  Unfortunately it begins with a conclusion and proceeds from there.

    Trust me, the Brits. know very little about this subject.  Some lakes ban barbless, some barbed.  "No particular reason" (Forest Gump)

    Phone

    What do you mean what does my mom know?

    Tons of emperical data means none then? :D Other than your usual "I've done my own tests" reply that nobody believes, is there any PUBLISHED data.....anyone?

    R

    barbless hook

    in Beginning Carping

    Posted

    Rickey,

    You have touched on one of the most contentious subjects associated with C&R.  Actually, barbless have the advantage of being more acceptable for untrained anglers.  Barbed hooks require more consideration on the anglers part.

    Now, except for lip damage there is no difference.  Lip damage is caused by the angler.

    Last carp are fish. In the US there is little chance either hook will make a difference, one from the other in the bigger picture.

    Last last, carp do not, do not, do not feel pain - did I mention carp do not feel pain.

    Phone

    Well, I'll not open the whole "Can fish feel pain" can of worms. That large soap box has been taken from me to help make the New World Trade Centre.....

    However, what you are saying is that there isn't actually any data on either hook being different from each other during the actual catch, in terms of ripping up the carp's face or any other such event? It makes sense that they would be the same or at least similar. I can see where you are coming from in terms of barbed hooks in the hands of untrained anglers as I think this leads to parrot-faced carp - Again Sodbury Steve can help us here as he fishes a high-pressure water in the UK...

    Ricky (without the e).

    barbless hook

    in Beginning Carping

    Posted

    Quick question on the topic of barbless hooks that might be part of this conversation...

    I've heard people say barbless hooks are more barbaric than barbed ones. Anyone got the actual data on that? Sodbury Steve??

    RickyB

    barbless hook

    in Beginning Carping

    Posted

    i really respect the carp and yesterday i accidentally caught what i presume to be a 3 inch baby carp, i had to take out the hook, but the barb was cuaght in its throat and it toar out skin and really injured the fish. i felt bad. I want to use barbless hook but i wonder if they will allow the carp to escape easier. thanks

    Just curious here, what rig are you using that results in deep-hooking a carp? I had the same problem when bobber fishing for them (they swallowed the bait too quickly) so I changed rigs to lip-hook them. Taking the hook out is easier that way. You can buy some carp care stuff too. I think the ACS have some. Dab it on the wound and it won't get infected. Good you are looking after the carp! :D

    RickyB

    I cant catch carp for anything!

    in Beginning Carping

    Posted

    You could try tying a smaller breaking strain leader to the hook, such as 10lb mono or braid. The fish will not be able to see it. You could use a weight if you want to but if you can cast to that area then the corn should sink by itself unless you use a popup.

    There is a very good "rig basics" section on the main page such as thehair rig and chumming as well as a few ideas for anchoring the bait on the bottom.

    As to where the fish went, they might be there but roaming (carp tend to have a feeding pattern). You might have to put some hours in to find them. Alternatively you could pile in some bait and wait. Chumming IMHO stops the carp as they roam and you will likely see them again. If that doesn't work then go look for other carpy places. They are quite a weary fish and I don't often see them in the water when I am fishing for them.

    Welcome to the board by the way.

    RickyB

    I cant catch carp for anything!

    in Beginning Carping

    Posted

    no doubt your gonna get lots of advice but here goes

      try fishing the sweetcorn on the bottom,a few kernals on your hook,  chum a coupla of handfuls in the spot,

    that should work for you.  or you can try freelining some bread  , that works especially well for another Mass angler  :D

    If the carp are there every day you could experiment with throwing in a few baits to see what they are interested in. To help us help you, what sort of equipment are you using? You can get all you need to catch carp with from Walmart, but presentation is everything now you have found a location. If you do it correctly, you can get them to take the bait. If you throw in corn around the area that will get them use to the bait, as has been suggested, and they will more likely take yours.

    RickyB

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